IRC log started Tue Jun 20 00:00:00 2000
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[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m BitchX: Press ^F to see who left  to change to [forward.openprojects.net]
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[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hi enigma[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m hey how's it going[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m we're making it[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m that's good :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m im just getting familiar with the tunes project, i was actually hunting for an old friend and ended up at your pages :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m ok[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m sounds pretty cool[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m also pretty much vapor for now[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m hehe it seemed like that sorta page ;)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m although we're working on that[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m cool :) well maybe i could get involved someday :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m the technical requirements are definitely not easy[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m ok[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m ya it sounds like it'll be easy to use when its done which i guess always means its insane to make hehe[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m mostly yes[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m l[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m oops[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m are you familiar with a guy named core/emmanuel?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m yep[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m he's often in #dolphin[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m works on clementine[0m
12:40am
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m cool :) he and i used to be rather good friends but we lost touch so im hunting him down hehe[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m core@tunes.org[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m thanks[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m so where exactly is the project at now?[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m if i may ask[0m
[1;34m<[1;33mwater[1;34m>[0m tunes?[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m is there something tryable?[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m yeah[0m
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[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m eihrul's deep into making a dynamic compiler system[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i'm working on a HLL specification[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m called slate[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m Fare's apparently got the interest of people with capital[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m cool, what will it look like (comparitively)[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m the hLL that is[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m really different[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m right now it looks like a cross between self, lisp, and forth[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m different is good :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m but much simpler[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m doh i dont program any of those ;)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m self isn't very remarkable, syntactically[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m the other two can and should be learned by any programmer who wants to learn something really new[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m certainly sounds like a worthy project, making stuff nowadays is a mess[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m worth requires code ;)[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m hehe[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m and specific goals and specs for that code[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m but it starts with an idea![0m
[1;30m* [1;33mcoreyr/#tunes [0mis away: games[0m
[1;34m<[1;33mwater[1;34m>[0m tunes is almost 6 years old, though[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m wow[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m time to move past idea? hehe[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i only joined a year and a half ago...[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m but i've researched using the site since it started[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m so is there any working code at this point[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m ?anything to play with [0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m there's plenty of working code that is absolutely not tunes[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m we don't give that out really[0m
12:50am
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m you *can* play with an old slate prototype[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m abi: slate?[0m
[1;34m<[0mabi[1;34m>[0m slate is a unifying/hybridizing of self/beta/lisp at http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m cool ill take a look[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m so if a programmer guy was interested in getting involved in this project A: can he, and b: where/how would he best be used?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m until tunes *works*, it depends strictly on how much you know[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m imo[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m we have plentuy of good programmers on the tunes mailing list who are useless right now to the project for that very reason[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m i etcha, it's all too low lvl for most programming work at this point?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m heh[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m no[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m eihrul's work is too in-depth into compiler issues[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m the work on slate is really high level but also so wierd and out there that not everyone can just follow it[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m ah[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m well thanks for the info, im off to bed :) if you see core let him know you saw Enigma he might be surprised who knows, hehe [0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m ok[0m
[1;34m<[0mEnigma[1;34m>[0m gnite :)[0m
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[1;34m<[0msmoke_[1;34m>[0m hoy.[0m
[1;34m<[0msmoke_[1;34m>[0m seen http://petition.eurolinux.org/ ?[0m
03:40am
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[1;34m<[0mnightwish[1;34m>[0m this may be the wrong channel to ask, but does anyone have any asm code written for the ia64 (other that intel's math functions)?[0m
05:00am
[1;34m<[0mnightwish[1;34m>[0m guess not[0m
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05:20am
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mbillh[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0m[BX] We drink more beers than Norm on Cheers![1;30m)[0m
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[1;34m<[0mlmaxson[1;34m>[0m coreyr.[0m
[1;34m<[0mlmaxson[1;34m>[0m coreyr: you made an offer to review material prior to submission.[0m
07:40am
[1;34m<[0mlmaxson[1;34m>[0m If the offer still holds, please contact me at lmaxson@pacbell.net.[0m
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[1;34m<[0mhcf[1;34m>[0m abi: GEL is Graph Evaluation Language, an open source initiative for multi-user internet 3D at http://www.gel3d.org[0m
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[1;34m<[0mbillh[1;34m>[0m Hello.[0m
01:50pm
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[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m Olleh.[0m
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[1;34m<[0mdomainator[1;34m>[0m uh oh[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m problem?[0m
[1;34m<[0mdomainator[1;34m>[0m smoke don't tell me you're here as well[0m
[1;34m<[0mdomainator[1;34m>[0m no no problem[0m
[1;34m<[0mdomainator[1;34m>[0m I just wanted to inquire what exactly tunes was[0m
[1;34m<[0mdomainator[1;34m>[0m hello?[0m
02:40pm
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m check the site[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [1;37msmoke_ [0mis now known as [0;36msmoke[0m
02:50pm
[1;34m<[0mFare[1;34m>[0m Gakuk[0m
03:00pm
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04:10pm
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[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hey all[0m
06:10pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m http://www.slip.net/~dekorte/Proto/Chart.html[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m hm, it's the objv guy[0m
[1;34m<[0mwashort[1;34m>[0m objc.[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m hmm, cool[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m notice the links of terms to pages with papers[0m
06:20pm
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[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m Topic [1;30m([0;36m#tunes[1;30m):[0m changed by [0;36mChanServ[1;30m:[0m http://tunes.org/[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m Topic [1;30m([0;36m#tunes[1;30m):[0m changed by [0;36mwater[1;30m:[0m TUNES: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate: http://www.arrow.cx/slate-home.html || Slate Tutorial: http://diktuon.arrow.cx/list.php?ns=tutorial || Zope Review Database: http://zope.tunes.org/Review/[0m
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[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hm[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so far, i've figured out two basic rewrite rules (an aspect of bmo's) for slate to make the tutorial code work[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m making sure that i don't have to have an explosion in rewrite rule population just to get a full system going is my current focus[0m
09:40pm
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m good focus[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m no kidding[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m if i base everything off of those two kinds of examples, i get a decent system, but i need to know how much steam is in that scheme[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m particularly with trying to do lispy things like macros and things like "map"[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m steam in tha scheme[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m hm unintended pun[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m hmm[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m summer again[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m i need to convinve my brain[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m that its not tired[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m what about it?[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m another year passess.[0m
[1;34m<[0mcoreyr[1;34m>[0m too fast.[0m
09:50pm
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m so anyway[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m i figure opening up the implementation of the quoting mechanism will do a lot of Good Things for slate[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m of course at the beginning, i'll just assume a really simple formal one that eihrul can hack together really quickly[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m how about (" and ") for quoting?[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m all the benefits of C-style quoting, with the ability to nest :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m (nesting like Lisp quoting can be nested)[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m ( and ) are vacant anyway[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m it seems it is pointless to fight the MMU...[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m true[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m why?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m though, hmm...[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m i wonder if completely software based persistence might somehow be made faster[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m it probably could... what are your ideas?[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m i'm not sure yet[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m i'm just wondering :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m it reminds me of that paper on software-based memory management and how it could be really well-optimized[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m hmm...[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m of course the stuff i read doesn't deal with implementation per se, but the idea was simply to use HLLs[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m i wonder, if on a RISC system... you could use load instructions that trap on unaligned memory accesses :)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m and put the management ther[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m there[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m wow[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m that's an interesting idea[0m
10:00pm
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m you could do relatively easy pointer swizzling that way[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m of course, that's not really applicable on good ol' x86 :/[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m nothing applies on x86 except dirty hacks[0m
[1;34m<[0meihrul[1;34m>[0m actually, there is an "alignment check" flag on the x86 i believe[0m
[1;31m-[0m[1;37m:[1;31m-[0m [0mSignOff [1;37mbillh[0m: #TUNES [1;30m([0mMy damn controlling terminal disappeared![1;30m)[0m
[1;34m<[0mwater[1;34m>[0m yeah probably so... it's been a while since i knew what all the flags were[0m
10:10pm
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IRC log ended Wed Jun 21 00:00:00 2000