IRC log started Wed Mar 29 00:00:02 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0329 -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) * water/#tunes is getting tired still writing the mail? -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) 12:40am -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES ([BX] Just do it like Nike... BEEATCH!) * nate37/#tunes yawns (mapcar #'+ '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) mmm... feel the lispy goodness and let it awaken you :) * nate37/#tunes falls over 01:20am :) 01:40am -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-59.tscnet.net]) -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-206-117-27-155.dialup.pcmagic.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn99.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us831.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (dying by hcf's request) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-132-75.s329.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[216-164-132-75.s329.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-129-229.s483.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- smoke is now known as avoozl abi: oofs is Object-Oriented Forths Survey at http://www.zetetics.com/bj/papers/oofs.htm 08:20am -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[216-164-129-229.s483.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-212-79.s587.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us831.javanet.com]) -:- avoozl is now known as smoke -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- Kuperan [user2484@on-tor-blr-a58-03-1156.look.ca] has joined #tunes -:- Kuperan [user2484@on-tor-blr-a58-03-1156.look.ca] has left #tunes [] -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us321.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-139-8.s262.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- overfien [overfien@dialupW150.sttl.uswest.net] has joined #tunes hello overfien hey hcf 12:20pm -:- smkl is now known as pug -:- pug is now known as smkl -:- SignOff overfien: #TUNES (Ping timeout for overfien[dialupW150.sttl.uswest.net]) -:- Ghyll [karltk@mp-217-220-29.daxnet.no] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp19.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes sup eih? reading mail 01:40pm ho hum -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (bbl) 02:10pm -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Ghyll[mp-217-220-29.daxnet.no]) -:- Ghyll [karltk@mp-217-220-29.daxnet.no] has joined #tunes -:- sschimanski [sschimansk@pec-111-247.tnt2.h2.uunet.de] has joined #tunes -:- schimmi [sschimansk@pec-111-247.tnt2.h2.uunet.de] has joined #tunes -:- schimmi is now known as schimmi_away schimmi_away: hello? 03:20pm -:- schimmi_away is now known as schimmi * schimmi/#tunes is back -:- schimmi is now known as schimmi_away * schimmi_away/#tunes is away: Only testing * schimmi_away/#tunes is back -:- schimmi_away [sschimansk@pec-111-247.tnt2.h2.uunet.de] has left #tunes [] -:- sschimanski [sschimansk@pec-111-247.tnt2.h2.uunet.de] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Ghyll[mp-217-220-29.daxnet.no]) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (bbl) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- tcn [r@cci-209150250060.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Ping timeout for tcn[cci-209150250060.clarityconnect.net]) -:- tcn [r@cci-209150250160.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-207-151-70-181.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes hey hey tcn take it to #osdev? -:- tcn_ [r@cci-209150250073.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Ping timeout for tcn[cci-209150250160.clarityconnect.net]) -:- tcn_ is now known as tcn 04:10pm -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-207-151-70-181.dialup.pcmagic.net] has left #tunes [] -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us246.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- farfnarr [schorncj@schorncj.laptop.rose-hulman.edu] has joined #tunes I'm somewhat new to the IRC thing, but is it usually so quiet? 04:40pm -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@208-58-196-54.s308.tnt10.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes I'm curious, what sort of work is currently being done to make the TUNES system a reality? Slate as a possible HLL, Retro as a possible LLL ah, ok, so this thing does work :c) so how does one become involved in the project, and what sorts of skills are necessary? what have you got? :) from what I've read, it sounds like C++ programming isn't going to be very helpful tcn: well, the eventual goal is that Slate is just an L.... it should encompass both ideas, hopefully it may be good experience I'm still studying though, and assembly will come some time next year asm is great :) C++ is not good for anything but not making tunes :) so is most of the work done in assembly, or some other language? i'm working in forth and assembly, brian's using mostly Lisp & Smalltalk afaik 04:50pm all these programming languages I've never heard of. It looks my library is about to go through some serious expansions :c) and what's forth? : SQUARE DUP * ; 5 SQUARE . 25 ok forth is a stack oriented language ( this is a comment) \ so is this :) nifty in that you don't have to name variables for most situations as you define programs and routines that operate on the stack itself interesting best thing about Forth is how tiny it is also very nice because it is one of the most trivial languages to implement, and perhaps learn :) so do most of you guys have CS degrees, or do most programmers not need them? don't need 'em so, is there a reason to actually spend 4 years getting a degree, or am I just wasting my money :c) tcn: not so and many people have and are working on cs degrees well.. if you're considering CS you should look at EE too you'll get your hands dirty in EE well, here, they make you take some basic level EE courses for logic design and such as well as computer architecture where's here? :) rose-hulman we're a small school in Terre Haute IN a very good engineering college I'm not sure in CS, but I like the environment enough that I'm sticking with it rmm, why not sure? 05:00pm so, about how far away is this thing from being a usable OS? extremely far well, it's known for engineering, and I've never seen any ratings of the CS curriculum but it's a rigorous school, so I'm sure it'll give me what I'm looking for just wait till next semester.. heh oh, I'm not even considering leaving. We're on a quarter system, and quarter credits don't transfer anywhere, so I'm stuck here either way :c) haha is most of the current work on the language then? or is anyone actually trying to put together an OS right now? i'm working on more OS stuff also, is the theory all hammered out, or is there still lots of mental work to be done on design? actual bootable code well, the language is supposed to subsume an "OS" if properly constructed, an OS is not needed :) and there's plenty of thoughts left to be thunk... there's a pretty good idea of what techniques are needed, but I doubt anyone here as actually written an automatic prover, for example. I must, from the theory that I read (not a lot) and understood (even less), it certainly seemed like an excellent OS it offers some interesting possibilities however, all these techniques have been used before by *someone*, but not in the same system. sure, but integrating them and making them all fit together is a challenge in its own right right you can't just take features and heap them all together... -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us246.javanet.com]) it's taken years for people to get over the fact that they won't get it right the first time -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us246.javanet.com] has joined #tunes well, this sounds like something I'd like to help out with, though I don't think I'll have the skills to do so for a year or two yet what do you do to start helping? hehe.. start learning what the hell they're talking about. 05:10pm Tunes's greatest accomplishment is www.tunes.org/Review man, so much reading to do, so little time -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[208-58-196-54.s308.tnt10.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@208-58-198-91.s91.tnt11.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes you wouldn't happen to be aware of any online programming guides to some of these programming languages would you? not offhand 05:20pm usually the printed books are better yeah, but they cost money and are not readily available for me. and besides that, I don't have compilers for them for the 'research' languages everything's online so actually trying out some of the things in the book might be tough I'm looking at a smalltalk page right now, but it's not giving me what I'm looking for you'll have to explore -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[208-58-198-91.s91.tnt11.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]: Connection reset by peer) or try the libraries I may have found what I'm looking for eh... most of these languages have free compilers :P oh really? yes I guess I'll be spending a lot of time searching the web then do many developers use these languages for anything? 05:30pm and if so, what sort of "name brand" packages are available? (like microsoft with visual C++) maybe 10 of those languages -:- water [water@tnt-9-55.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hey all ping? pong apparently i have a response or two to read from tunesers hey oh great this kyle is an arrow fan but doesn't understand much -:- farfnarr [schorncj@schorncj.laptop.rose-hulman.edu] has left #tunes [] 05:40pm why did he leave? * eihrul/#tunes shrugs. i see from the logs you guys educated him about tunes :) tried to hm i'll try to be patient with this kyle fellow but if he won't read, then i'll just have to ignore him -:- jintxo [jintxo@wks-29-179-190.kscable.com] has joined #tunes hello jintxo hi there . are you familiar with tunes, jintxo? no, I'm not. I was just looking around the channels and tunes sounded good to me :) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-212-139.s520.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes ok well check out the website and faq to get a big overview -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us246.javanet.com]) aight :) of course, we'll answer questions -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us246.javanet.com] has joined #tunes oh good, massimo answered kyle for me i must remember to thank him hm it's too bad that peter wegner got into that skiing accident 05:50pm gosh tunes does look like a real challenge ... heh people get disheartened about it often, jint so basically change EVERYHTING about a computer and how it works right? except hardware , maybe? yes, but there is a way to apply the tunes ideas to hw as well hmmm.. could you explain the term "reflection" briefly? for instance using dynamically-programmable gate arrrays for cpu's jint: did you read the interview link in the channel topic? * eihrul/#tunes shrugs. no, I didn't... went through the FAQs water: as much as something like that is nice... it can be done more cheaply in software I'm on my way, though eih: i know it's debatable whether tunes needs to be applied to hw and plus meta-regression is harder to solve in hardware :) heh I HATE MY NEW MODEM!!! well i suppose a reflective nano-computer isn't out of the question atg: shut up, no one cares atg: take it back!! I don't have the money for a better one. =( bleh, this guy posted a 50k file in to the mailing list for his distributed objects system for squeak pardon my ignorance, everybody, but I have a simple question: Tunes implies a very high "level of abstraction",right? again, no flames :) jint: not necessarily, but that's definitely the idea 06:00pm jint: the idea is that every piece of code is reducible to high-level objects' interactions Do you think this would affect performance heavily? not necessarily that is why you make the high-level interactions faster :) because you have things like run-time type feedback and dynamic optimization you lost me :) jint: heard of self? jintxo: making better compilers... but in tunes, the idea of a compiler just doesn;t fit in right... are you maybe talking of some sort of dynamic sompiling? * eihrul/#tunes nods. yeah basically compilers that can adapt and optimize code without forcing the programmer to get heavily involved yes dynamic compiling all the way :) each time there is a change. correct? not necessarily just about only if the change would actually impact performance is it worth changing something because when you're dealing with compiler optimizations, the changes can be expensive wrt space and time hm. ok, I can see that. have you guys ever had the though that maybe a language can get so high-level that it becomes English (a dialect) or any other language? i definitely have, and it's wrong English ain't precise. no, even loglan (or lojban) couldn't derive from a computing language Hm. WEll, nice talking to you. I admire your goals. Gotta go pick up dad :) ok cya -:- SignOff jintxo: #TUNES (jintxo has no reason) 06:10pm allright, my metacompiler works good works well? -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) got it all straightened out yesterday.. works the way I want it to. -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp19.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes I can switch from forth to asm within a : definition 06:20pm hm anyone got a beef about tunes/slate/arrow? 06:40pm -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us246.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us246.javanet.com] has joined #tunes damn it sorry, i was going to say somehting, bu n/m -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) 07:00pm -:- ult [ult@user-38lcmth.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (ircII EPIC4pre2 cLIeNUX. Can you say that?) -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-139-174.s428.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes hohum hm * water/#tunes is working on refining his ideas for slate when is the next webdoc update scheduled? most likely when i figure out the meta-behavior issue it figures into all of the other reamining issues remaining, even r u gonna do slate-news? hm well, if i figure out meta-behavior, and wrote up all the consequences of the design chosen, that would be news s/wrote/write/ 08:10pm -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us246.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1034.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[216-164-139-174.s428.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]) :P some days i feel like a crackpot 08:30pm -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-207-151-70-220.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-9-55.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp39.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-207-151-70-220.dialup.pcmagic.net] has left #tunes [] -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-206-117-3-108.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-206-117-3-108.dialup.pcmagic.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ult[user-38lcmth.dialup.mindspring.com]) -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-207-151-70-98.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us1034.javanet.com]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn212.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0330 IRC log ended Thu Mar 30 00:00:02 2000