IRC log started Mon Mar 20 00:00:02 2000
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0320
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<lispbliss> heh, not a single word spoken in here since I first joined last night :)
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<overfien> werd
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06:40am
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<XeF4> !seen tcn
<smkl> abi, seen tcn ?
<abi> tcn was last seen on IRC 1 days, 20 hours, 31 minutes and 12 seconds ago, saying: hmm [Sat Mar 18 12:57:07 2000]
09:30am
<Fare> Hum.
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09:40am
<ult_> criminy
<Fare> criminy?
<ult_> criminy
<Fare> what gives, in french?
<ult_> I got dropped by my ISP
09:50am
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<ult> bleh
<ult> this is bad
10:50am
<rares> isp.wetnoodle.net?
<ult> yes
<rares> tsk tsk tsk
<rares> I just got visited by a couple of MIBs
<rares> they inspected my house
<ult> Seriously?
<rares> i feel violated
<rares> actually they're from the census probably
<rares> but still
<rares> strangers ewww
<ult> heh
11:00am
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<smoke> are there tutorials on how to program in a way which makes garbage collectors happy?
<ult> well
<ult> there is no generic wa to do that actually
<ult> its all highly dependant onthe garbage collector
<ult> But it usually boils down to either throw away a lot of stuff
<ult> Or try to allocate heaps (allocate as few things as possible)
12:20pm
<smoke> hm
12:30pm
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<smoke> is (coerce 97 'base-char) common common lisp ?
<smoke> and/or, where should i ask instead of in #tunes ?
01:20pm
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<Fufie> morning
* smkl/#tunes gives Fufie a clock
<smkl> or a window
<Fufie> thank you :)
01:40pm
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<smoke> fufie: i'm actually doing some useful common lisp hacking now :) 
<smoke> (trying to build an svgalib/ggi interface to cmucl)
02:00pm
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<fire`> hey all
02:10pm
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<Fufie> smoke: cool :)
02:40pm
<smoke> fufie: i'm having a hard time trying to route *error-output* into my own font routines, but i think i'll manage :)
<Fare> smoke: how is that harder than for the usual output?
<smoke> fare: i don't know if it's harder - i'm new at common lisp
<smoke> fare: i have no idea how to hook a write-function to an output-stream (if that's possible at all)
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02:50pm
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* ult/#Tunes looks at smoke and wonders what is wrong with him
<smoke> ult: how do you mean?
<AlonzoTG> om
<ult> svgalib in cmucl?
<ult> that is asking for trouble
<smoke> ult: why? it's working fine
<ult> What happens when cmucl errors?
<smoke> ult: atm it crashes, but i'm trying to route error messages to a svga-console
03:10pm
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<Fufie> smoke: you rebind *error-output* to your new stream
<Fufie> smoke: (let ((*error-output* <new stream>))  <all your code here>)
<smoke> fufie: yes, i was doing that .. but how can i actually print text when it enters the stream?
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<smoke> fufie: the error output now `disappears' in the stream; i need some sort of function hook to read from the stream and output it accordingly
<Fufie> smoke: in cmucl there is something called SERVE-EVENT I think
<Fufie> smoke: ask at the cmucl mailing list to get hints on the best approach to do it
<Fufie> smoke: however: svgalib is _dead_ on linux so you might want to use a more modern library
<smoke> i'll do that when i'm really stuck :-) i'm progressing rapidly
<smoke> haha :)
<Fufie> ggi is newer and doesn't require root, no?
<smoke> svgalib 1.9 doesn't allow root either
<smoke> it's not dead :)
<Fufie> it was dead not long ago (when it required root) :)
<smoke> it uses /dev/svgalib_helper, which is an ugly kludge, about as ugly as the suid root x11 servers, the fbcon hacks and about everything around in linux, which itself i consider to be the mother hack :)
<smoke> there's www.svgalib.org
<smoke> and of course i'll be using libggi soon, i'm just hacking a little; svgalib is best supported on my machine..
03:50pm
<smoke> i've got the eval/print loop to work in svgalib now and i can draw rectangles, load png's and blit those on the screen.. whee :)
<Fufie> :)
<smoke> very non tunes related btw, sorry.
<smoke> isn't there an opensource project all about Fun and without any particular goal in mind?
<smoke> s/opensource/politically teasing/
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04:00pm
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<Fufie> smoke: dunno :)
* Fufie/#tunes heads to bed
<AlonzoTG> I need $ to build custom hardware. =(
04:10pm
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<Fare> looks like the wiretap online library has disappeared.
<Fare> I cannot connect to wiretap.spies.com anymore. Hundreds of megabytes of literature disappear!
<Fare> smoke: all about Fun? Maybe some Haskell thing then?
04:20pm
<smoke> fare: hehehe
* smoke/#tunes is off for some sleep. bye all.
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!)
<hcf> Fare: what was wiretap?
<hcf> abi: beep Fare
<abi> i beeped Fare
<hcf> abi: beep Fare
<abi> i beeped Fare
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04:30pm
<hcf> abi: beep Fare
<abi> i beeped Fare
04:40pm
<Fare> hum
<Fare> wiretap is or was a huge e-text library at gopher://wiretap.spies.com/
04:50pm
<Fare> if it moved and you found out where, I'm interested.
<Fare> I've got an index to free e-texts at http://fare.tunes.org/books/
<hcf> k
05:00pm
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<XeF4_> tcn!
<Fare> t c n
<eihrul> tcn: retro3 update?
* Fare/#Tunes downloaded fos-0XX.tgz
<tcn> hehe
<Fare> how for is retro from that?
<tcn> what's XX?
<Fare> 218, I guess
<Fare> (didn't compile outofthebox with gforth)
<tcn> oh, right before I left for vacation
<tcn> (I haven't really gotten back yet)
<tcn> It has a decent terminal I/O now
<Fare> gotta go 3053
<tcn> KEY and EMIT actually work
<Fare> tcn: do post your good stuff
<tcn> see ya
* Fare/#Tunes is away
<tcn> in due time :)
<XeF4_> tcn: (just curious) how is the scheduler/context switch?
<tcn> XeF4 - what the hell kinda loser would use a name like that ;-P
05:10pm
<tcn> oh, it's nonexistinent now
<XeF4_> apparently I would
<tcn> chemistry is cool :)
<tcn> I'll use a cooperative multitasking where possible, only... 4 cells
<XeF4_> hm..
<XeF4_> <-- looking for a kernel to graft a network router onto
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<tcn> I really want TCP/IP in Retro.. you know Forth?
05:20pm
<XeF4_> no
<tcn> hmm.. router for what?
<XeF4_> IP QoS thingy for work
<tcn> Qos?
<XeF4_> quality of service
<tcn> for selecting between several uplinks?
<tcn> Ever seen VSTa?
<XeF4_> no, for throttling bandwidth
<XeF4_> no
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<tcn> it's a small unix-like kernel.. it might do the trick for ya.. or maybe not..
<hcf> abi: vsta?
<abi> vsta is a microkernel OS made by Andy Valencia (www.zendo.com/vsta)
<XeF4_> [#tunes    ][ thomas   ][thomas@193.217.63.152            ] [n/a]
<XeF4_> [#tunes    ][ TUNES    ][tunes@bespin.dhs.org             ] [n/a]
<XeF4_> [#tunes    ][ XeF4_    ][xef4@194.19.185.227              ] [n/a]
<XeF4_> <tcn> chemistry is cool :)
<XeF4_> <tcn> I'll use a cooperative multitasking where possible, only... 4 cells
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> hm..
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> <-- looking for a kernel to graft a network router onto
<XeF4_> ωνω lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.140.117.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
<XeF4_> <tcn> I really want TCP/IP in Retro.. you know Forth?
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> no
<XeF4_> <tcn> hmm.. router for what?
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> IP QoS thingy for work
<XeF4_> <tcn> Qos?
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> quality of service
<XeF4_> <tcn> for selecting between several uplinks?
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> no, for throttling bandwidth
<XeF4_> <tcn> Ever seen VSTa?
<XeF4_> <XeF4_> no
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<XeF4_> <tcn> it's a small unix-like kernel.. it might do the trick for ya.. or maybe
<XeF4_>           not..
<XeF4_> <hcf> abi: vsta?
<XeF4_> <abi> vsta is a microkernel OS made by Andy Valencia (www.zendo.com/vsta)
<XeF4_>  [12:47am][XeF4_(+fiw)][Mail: 19] [#tunes(+n)]
<XeF4_> [#tunes]
<XeF4_> aargh
<XeF4_> (gpm freaked out switching X-console)
<tcn> heh
05:30pm
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<XeF4_> tcn: how difficult is forth to pick up?
<tcn> xe: takes a year or so to really get the hang of it
<tcn> you think you have it then you discover something else :)
<XeF4_> sounds like a steeper learning curve than C
<tcn> maybe. Knowing C certainly won't help you pick up Forth faster
<tcn> Forth is essential if you're working with limited resources or starting from scratch.
<eihrul> but luckily, there's been no computational apocalypse yet
<tcn> we just like to pretend :)
<XeF4_> eihrul: one of those could only help now
<eihrul> perhaps, perhaps not
<tcn> hey guess what, I found something with punchcards today!
<tcn> and the DoD is still using it!
<XeF4_> gasp..
<eihrul> so long as it is not Microsoft Visual Punchcard, that's fine
05:40pm
<tcn> well it could be handled with Access
<tcn> we need to rename that one.. Abcess?
<eihrul> nice
<eihrul> but then you must also find other clever disease, plague, syndrome, and condition names for all other microsoft products or you risk an inconsistent theme
<tcn> piece a cake
<eihrul> you own a medical dictionary? :)
<tcn> MS Turd, MS Ulcer, MS Orifice..
<XeF4_> Asinine Card Colator Extensions for Stack Scrambling
<XeF4_> Collator, even
<tcn> hehe
<tcn> yeah, this ancient mil-standard is pre-relational. It's basically an index card system.. and relationalism looks like a lousy hack to perpetuate the original punchcard databases.
<tcn> it's all making sense now
<tcn> they already had their key fields so they could keep track of cards that got lost.. so why not index them with a tree/hash and tie them all together?
<tcn> thing is, the cards don't get lost if they never leave the computer.. then the keys become redundant.
05:50pm
<tcn> man.. I can just see these GI's bitching and moaning as they punch out cards like "A01RRRAAXAANBF 020REMOVE RADAR DISH          "
<XeF4_> hm.. forth syntax seems rather messy
<eihrul> rmm, it is not messy
<eihrul> forth syntax is just simple
<tcn> xe: only a little. Personally I like concise code..
<XeF4_> so do I
<tcn> it does get out of hand if you treat it like C or something.. Most forth words only take 1 or 2 parameters.
<tcn> but it's way more efficient to make subroutine calls in Forth, since there are no stack frames.
<eihrul> not really
<eihrul> atleast on x86, frames for a language like C are rather simple
<XeF4_> not really.. C subroutines read from the stack instead of popping
<XeF4_> with most compilers
<eihrul> and consist of merely a return continuation
<tcn> But to pass a parameter down through several levels of subroutines, you have to copy it to another stack frame in each level.
<XeF4_> tcn: not if you're clever and write unmaintainable code
<eihrul> not if you use global variables
<eihrul> and even then, if you use an object orientated language
<eihrul> then you can pass variables with respect to self
<XeF4_> eihrul: or unportable but widely-supported tricks
<eihrul> avoiding the stack completely
<eihrul> XeF4_: well, there's memory addressing as well
<tcn> I can do all that in forth
<XeF4_> (the parameters are usually still on the stack when calling the sub-sub routine, so if you #define the size of a subroutine context...)
<tcn> people really do that? :)
* XeF4_/#tunes hides his face
<eihrul> tcn: you can do a lot of things in one language as you can do in another... what is more important is how the language supports the mechanisms or allows you to support them for yourself
06:00pm
<tcn> heh.. there's always assembler :)
<tcn> heh.. we knock C too much here
<XeF4_> so I gathered from the language review..
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<tcn> I'm thinking about using C for some projects at work.. lots of good tools for C, you know?
<XeF4_> tcn: exactly
<XeF4_> C is okay for something which must be fast and done now
<tcn> yeah
<XeF4_> (actually, this litle project should have been done some weeks ago)
<tcn> when I have enough tools for forth maybe I'll use it at work.. database interfaces, windows interface, a big library of functions, all running on top of a *good* Forth. Maybe an expensive commercial one..
<tcn> I never did learn to appreciate C++
<XeF4_> proprietary software.. =P
<tcn> we've all been down that road.. heh
<tcn> VB
<tcn> (rhymes with TB)
<XeF4_> or VD
<tcn> ha
<tcn> well now I'm head programmer and heads are gonna roll! :)
<lar1> Heh
<tcn> (i'm also the only programmer and the 3rd newest guy)
<tcn> ;)
06:10pm
<XeF4_> hehe.. what sort of coding do you do?
<tcn> mostly databases and data processing
<tcn> at work anyways
<tcn> oh yeah, don't forget the pretty user interfaces
<tcn> not too much of that.. too me user-friendly means "responsive"
<tcn> er, to
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<XeF4_> agreed
<tcn> even guys who don't know jack shit about computers would rather have a responsive VT100 than some of the windows crap we get.
<XeF4_> large corporation?
<tcn> no, pretty small. Some big clients.  I also used to work at an electric company..
<tcn> it REALLY sucked when they switched from mainframe/terminals to client/server
<tcn> at least the _terminals_ were reliable :)
<XeF4_> =)
<tcn> heh.. where I'm at now they've got a piece of fully certified logistics software... even Access runs circles around it
<tcn> 2 minutes vs. 2 hours
06:20pm
<tcn> ever used Access's reports though?
<XeF4_> no
<tcn> crap
<XeF4_> it has been a _long_ time since I've used Windows-anything
<tcn> you're in a Unix house?
<XeF4_> er.. (retracts..)  I'm doing some stuff with an NT thin client
<XeF4_> indeed, we use FreeBSD for almost everything
<tcn> commercial, university or what?
<XeF4_> commercial
<tcn> is it a network provider?
<XeF4_> no
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<tcn> hey water
<water> cool, XeF4
<water> hey all
<XeF4_> water?
<water> XeF4: nice nick
<water> anyway, does anyone have stuff to discuss?
<tcn> nah we're just bitching about Access :)
<water> speaking of which
<eihrul> tcn: Abcess
<water> today i just got handed programming leadership for a navy-wide program
<tcn> is it Dist. A?
<water> what's that?
<tcn> means you can talk about it ;)
<water> yes i can talk about it
06:30pm
<water> i have to do all the core logic, queries, search facilities, and overall software engineering, including most ui aspects
<tcn> hmm. . what for?
<water> nuclear maintenance and work admin
<water> the big point is that it's supposed to be all-inclusive
<tcn> does it deal with spare parts and such?
<water> and the idea is to reduce the number of forms we need and the amount of manual info-entry
<water> no it interfaces with the supply system but doesn't encompass it
<tcn> and even access does a fine job of avoiding duplication
<water> sarcasm?
<tcn> no really, compared to what people do with spreadsheets and crap
<water> oh yes it does make a bit of that easier
<water> but i'd rather be doing it in smalltalk, of course
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<tcn> right
<tcn> what's the provisioning system you interface to?
<water> you mean the supply program?
<tcn> yeah
<water> hm i don't remember the name
<tcn> Access too, or a mainframe or something? :)
<water> heh
06:40pm
<water> we have a mainframe on board but i haven't looked into the supply program architecture
<water> needless to say, it's a really lame system
<tcn> heh.. is it a CASS?
* water/#tunes shrugs
<water> i haven't looked into it
<tcn> is it a 5-fridge sized system?
<tcn> :)
<water> hm yes about that size
<tcn> sometimes my company has to output manuals in a special format for that beast.. heh
<tcn> you think you can link directly to the supply database, or import/export text files or something?
<water> text files and shell scripts is my current plan
<tcn> text is the best :)
<water> unless i can get my hands on the tech manuals and they describe api's or give the company's phone number
<water> text is terrible
<water> it works, i'll admit that
<tcn> it probably follows some military spec
<water> well anyway, we're planning on replacing our current set of (i think) 50 forms with 7
<tcn> nice
<water> which is only required because the military won't endorse electronic signatures yet
<tcn> heh.. I dug up a 60's(?) mil-spec today, where data was entered 1 line per punchcard :)
<tcn> 80 columns
<water> heh
<tcn> it's nice in a way.. every record is 80 columns, so it prints nicely, easy to GC
<water> we are right now having a lan installed in the reactor plant spaces with access to these programs
<tcn> fibre channel right?
<water> i'm plugging really hard to start a pilot program with pda's that we take logs with and communicate by :)
<water> yes
<tcn> hehe
<tcn> bluetooth :)
<water> well the nuclear navy has a lot of important issues that ordinary pda's don't address, so it may be difficult
* tcn/#tunes wonders if bluetooth is intelligently designed
<tcn> I hope rad-hardening isn't one of 'em (for your sake :)
<water> no, that's not necessary
06:50pm
<water> but for instance our lan laptops have a special foam filling inside
<water> so they can take a lot of punishment
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<tcn> heh.. reminds me of a "Slate" laptop the power company evaluated for the linemen to use. NATO-spec, real tough.. also impossible to use :)
<water> actually these are just ordinary laptops
<tcn> I'd hope so
<tcn> you could get 3 for the price of 1 of these and it would be 100 times faster :)
<water> they actually went for a fairly low cost and are just foam-filled
<water> heh
<tcn> you carry spare flight computers, why not a few cheap laptops :)
<water> well anyway, if all this pans out, and i manage to exceed the basic goals, a team of observers will evaluate our ship's program and possibly recommend it for the fleet
<tcn> heh.. did I tell you about the "replacement" Naval logistics program I inherited?
<water> i also forgot to mention that we're not only supposed to reduce the number of form types but also the amount of forms used (i.e. clerical errors, resubmissions etc)
<water> not really
<tcn> William Perry canceled the old standard and my company's been working on the replacement.. lots of paring-down :)
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<water> yeah i remember you saying something about that
<tcn> but most contractors are still using the old standard (1388-2B) because it's there
<tcn> it seems kinda hopeless sometimes .. eheh
07:00pm
<water> the only reason i care is that i get to code to simplify the lives of thousands
<tcn> on the plus side, i'm working with quite a few ex-navy guys
<water> i also get a reume bullet point, of course
<water> s/reume/resume/
<tcn> hehe
<tcn> you want to see unnecessary complication, look at a 1388-2A manual (that's the old punchcard system)
<water> hm well i'd better shift from noise to signal
<tcn> heh
<water> seriously i have to update the slate pages quite a bit
<tcn> and it's getting late on the east coast
<tcn> let me know when ya do
<water> most likely tonight late
<tcn> well, take care
<water> k
<tcn> later ya'll
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (ircII EPIC4pre2   cLIeNUX. Can you say that?)
<water> damn this squeaker is writing some awesome morphic tutorials
<water> does anyone want to talk?
07:10pm
<lar1> What are you looking to talk about?
<water> slate/tunes/arrow/hll's/etc
* lar1/#tunes looks at the intel data book in his lap... quietly resumes reading
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07:20pm
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<water> hm guarana has recently become a tunes mlist hot topic
<lar1> Isn't that that caffinated drink?
08:20pm
<water> yes, by day, but it's also a reflective architecture at night ;)
<lar1> Heh, cool
<water> sort of like how i run reactors by day, but by night i am the below-the-radar slate developer with tricks up his sleeve ;)
<water> well, s/slate/arrow/
<lar1> Heh
<eihrul> water: hrmm, so what is this meta-object composition mumbo-jumbo in guarana?
<water> basically it allows you to have meta-object re-use with the control of the object model
<eihrul> and what are the means to the end exactly? :)
<water> basically, any meta-object can be a composer meta-object
<water> in slate, i'm going to have mo's be composers by having the composed mo's be slots of the composer
<eihrul> so the composer serves as a middle-man that routes to other mos?
<water> yep or it can answer itself
08:30pm
<eihrul> sounds eerily like controlled multiple inheritance
<water> sort of
<water> though mi is a totally different domain
<water> this is orthogonal to message-sends
<eihrul> if all the composer does is forward mop requests to other mos, then it doesn't necessarily seem orthogonal to the delegation mechanism
<water> orthogonal to the original object's delegation, not the mo's delegation
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<hcf> water: icuc, http://www.cs.chalmers.se/%7Erjmh/Arrows/Generalising%20Monads%20to%20Arrows/index.htm
<water> yeah read it
<eihrul> hrmm, monads and arrows in the same title... that can't be good
<water> hehe
<water> no coincidence :)
08:40pm
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<water> i really need to explore the namespace aspect of slate a bit more
<eihrul> in what way?
<water> to find out how much i have to stretch the directory metaphor to make the best use of slate objects
<eihrul> stretch as in bloat or make more general? :)
<water> make more general, silly
09:10pm
* water/#tunes commences to updating each section of the slate docs
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<water> hello infotek
<infotek> hi 
<water> are you familiar with tunes?
<infotek> what tunes all about ?
<water> abi tunes?
<abi> it has been said that tunes is a free reflective computing system at http://www.tunes.org or for programming languages what the internet is to networks or like flypaper for hallucinogenic programmers or discombobulated or obnubilated or AOTA
<water> hmm ignore the last part please :)
<infotek> guess i should just check out the page ;>
<water> yeah we can answer questions
<infotek> have a nice night/day i'll browse the ~/ page
<water> k
-:- water has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Language http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html
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09:20pm
<water> can anyone point out specific places in slate docs they would like to see get updated?
<water> hm i'm overhauling the syntax page to contain all syntax issues, not just ebnf
09:30pm
* eihrul/#tunes hmms.
<eihrul> the block paragraph sort of runs off a cliff...
<water> oops
* water/#tunes tries to recall where it was supposed to go
<water> hm i'll move it up into the "core ideas" section
<water> it's not that big an issue to have it's own section below, i think
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<water> hey dx
<Downix> hoy Water
<water> does the recent amiga news sound like more of the same or something else?
<Downix> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<Downix> pic (#dolphin): Dolphin Operating System Discussions
<Downix> ωνω Topic (#dolphin): set by kc5tja at Mon Mar 20 18:06:13 2000
<Downix> ωνω [Users(#dolphin:10)]
<Downix> [ Downix    ] [ hcf       ] [ ult       ] [ MysticOne ] [ air       ]
<Downix> [ eihrul    ] [ lar1      ] [@kc5tja    ] [ ultrendo  ] [ Brianna   ]
<Downix> ωνω Channel #dolphin was created at Fri Mar 10 15:07:46 2000
<Downix> ωνω BitchX: Join to #dolphin was synced in 6.751 secs!!
<Downix> <Downix> hoy Water
<Downix> <air:#dolphin> he lives!
<Downix> hold on
<Downix> gpm -k
<water> that was not needed dude
09:40pm
<Downix> I wouldn't know, I have not had a system running for over a week
09:50pm
<Downix> water:  Soon I'll have to be plugging Alpha, if this partnership goes through
<water> heh
<water> not crusoe? ;)
<Downix> nope, didn't get that lucky.
10:00pm
<water> okay, the slate web docs have lots of updates (not enough yet)
10:20pm
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* eihrul/#tunes looks over slate web docs.
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* eihrul/#tunes hmms.
<water> there's a hell of a lot more to add
10:40pm
<eihrul> abi: ufo?
<abi> well, ufo is United Functions with Objects at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/arch/projects/ufo.html
<water> yeah i'll convert those references to urls
<eihrul> i assume UFO is nothing different from what we've discussed before?
<water> it's got some interesting ideas
<eihrul> like?
<water> nothing spectacular, but the collection comprehensions are interesting
* eihrul/#tunes wishes there were 24*(0 / 0) hours in the day.
10:50pm
<lar1> An undefined amound of hours?  Eh?
<water> or all amounts of hours :)
<eihrul> yep, any amount of hours i please
<lar1> How is that any amount you please?
<water> 0/0=x => 0*x=0
<water> any x will do
<lar1> Ah
<water> i believe i discussed this specifically with you last week
<lar1> No -- we discussed -1*-1=1 I think
<water> well you obviously don't remember all of the conversation
<water> you should have logged it
* eihrul/#tunes ponders how simple it is to convert functional languages to static single assignment form. :)
<lar1> I loged it
<hcf> lar1: s/g/gg/
<water> not difficult
<water> it's called data-flow programming
11:00pm
<eihrul> that was a rhetorical ponder
<eihrul> because it is already in static single assignment form :)
<water> this is a rhetorical channel ;)
<eihrul> (assuming you are purely functional)
<eihrul> hrmm, ufos array productions are mildly interesting
<eihrul> fur Unified Functions and Objects, they don't seem very unfied
<eihrul> s/unfied/unified
<water> there you go
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<water> i'm warping your mind with slate ideas :)
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<water> hey nate
<nate37> heelllo
<nate37> anything happening over here?
<eihrul> well, this just seems like functional Java :)
<nate37> :)
<water> there's talk in #dolphin about oses
<water> eih: it's a little better than that
11:10pm
<eihrul> okay, an unholy mix of functional programming and C++ and Pascal syntax? is that better?
<water> lol
<water> okay okay
<nate37> harder than java then :)
<water> nate: we're discussing a research language called ufo
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<nate37> sorry
<water> don't be, i just wanted to clarify
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<eihrul> how annoying, the site just went down
<water> yeah i noticed
11:20pm
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<ult> bleh
* eihrul/#tunes hopelessly hits the right arrow key in lynx to no avail... Making HTTP connection... Unable to connect to remote host.
<hcf> all these channels and #dolphin gets all the action
<eihrul> it is a UFO conspiracy
<ult> Mostly because kc5tja doesn't bitch about general chat going on in there.
<water> doplhin's the most active channel of what set, though?
<hcf> ult: so its all water's fault?
<eihrul> can we, umm, keep it civil? :)
<hcf> water: #tunes, #osdev, #{}, #dolphin, #brix
<water> hm it seems like three of those should be one
<hcf> and #modtunes i suppose
11:30pm
<eihrul> hmm, any UFO mirrors?
<water> nope
* eihrul/#tunes dohs.
<eihrul> "does not invoke the 'self' parameter of the message"
<water> yeah interesting statement isn't it?
<eihrul> this seems to say state exists above the object
<water> roughly yes
<water> state is the behavior of accessor messages
<water> nothing more :)
<eihrul> problem was in interpretation on my part
<water> ok
<eihrul> didn't realize you were alluding to code-as-data
11:40pm
<eihrul> in which case, state does exists above the object
<water> a correct statement within an error
<eihrul> did you ever resolve ':'?
<water> its in syntax now
<water> it's a particular object which mutators inherit (by definition)
<water> it has primitive behavior but can be extended, and allows for implicit namespace shifting
<hcf> water: in syntax, doesnt list need a delimiter?
<water> er... the mutators contain clones of ":"
<water> oops yes
<water> i've ignored the ebnf almost entirely
11:50pm
* water/#tunes contemplates introducing slate syntax as based on "(object object)"
<water> or maybe "(message message)" :)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0321
IRC log ended Tue Mar 21 00:00:01 2000