IRC log started Sun Mar 12 00:00:02 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0312 -:- SignOff Plundis: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Plundis[130.238.23.252]) -:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- dalvarez [ircusr@212.68.72.98] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (http://www.qzx.com/ :: sleep) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-203-73.s327.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff dalvarez: #TUNES (Ping timeout for dalvarez[212.68.72.98]) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp53.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- Kaufmann [newbie@200.255.108.94] has joined #tunes GOD DAMN SLASHDOT =\ ? down again? did your karma overflow from 255 ? slashdot loaded in 10 seconds at 28.8.... No... it seems Rob and Jeff have decided it's a good idea to keep the high-ranking posters on their toes, by having their Karma decrease by one point every two days In the past two weeks, my Karma went from 59 to 53, for no reason whatsoever *shrug* * AlonzoTG/#tunes is anonymous coward. 10:30am lol * AlonzoTG/#tunes is estatically happy about my new DOS mouse driver. =) It even keeps the cursor on the page at 80x50! =) LOL I envy people who can be happy about the little things I got my mouse at a surpluss store. Kaufmann: you need to hire some people to collect some karma for you I have a funky AT board that has the mouse port next to the keyboard... anyway. kaufie: muhahahahaha :) smkl, I've thought about starting a Karma-trading business -:- water [water@tnt-10-23.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hey all hey water what's news? in any case, I was really pissed off by the general reaction to the Bill Joy article. I mean, it's supposed to be a tech forum... we're supposed to be the optimists, aren't we?!? grrr no http access again does he talk about nanoweapons? and instead, all I see are people shunning Joy's ideas not because they're too pessimistic, but because they assume that we _will_ develop AI!!! I mean, _come on_. I know techno-cynicism is fashionable nowadays, but this is ridiculous. smkl, among other things there are even people claiming the supernaturality of the human brain... and getting moderated _up_ for it! do slashdotters need to be modernists and techno-lovers? Fufie, I should hope so! -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) why? I seem to have missed the day when Slashdot was taken over by the Katzites 10:40am do not discard the post-modernism criticism of modernist society.. they have many good points but they also err very badly at times, and that is why we need a neo-modernism era which we're seeing the beginning of right now Kaufmann: same day PERL became most l33t programming language? Fufie, I'm just kidding... they don't _have_ to be anything. I'm just saying that last time I checked, the geeks were supposed to be the dreamers and optimists smkl, I suppose Fufie, I couldn't agree more geeks are not necessarily dreamers and optimists Pomo is passé programmers/developers are dreamers and optimists (cf Brooks) geeks are geeks are geeks are basically deviants hackers is just one kind of the geek society what about social hackers? social hackers? okay, I'll rephrase: last time I checked, the hackers were supposed to be the dreamers and optimists. Ooooh, Faré speaks :) there are still hackers on slashdot? smkl: not a lot I guess smkl, yes, but you have to know where to look :) real hackers don't dream. They do. * Fare/#Tunes isn't a real hacker * water/#tunes is afk making a call to his isp smkl: /. is mostly a script-kiddie, power-luser and screaming (linux) kid place water: isp offices open on sunday? yeah mine is fare: hackers do stuff, but they also dream of the next version :) Faré, well, I figure dreams are what makes one go do stuff. MLK had a dream... RMS had a dream... :) MLK? was that a hacker? Faré, Martin Luther King :) was MLK a hacker? uh, a civil rights activist eih: I know who MLK was, but was he a hacker? Fufie, he was a social hacker :) Fare isn't a hacker anymore, he is an official demigod of hacking He dumped core. wouldn't a social hacker instead build a new society (houses, shops, legal system, etc)? -:- rares [rares@nwhn-sh14-port183.snet.net] has joined #tunes Kaufmann: who fell victim to an uncaught signal... unfortunately smkl: official? * Fare/#Tunes was never a hacker only a wannabee 10:50am *bzzzzzzzzzt* bzzzzzzzzzt ? Fare is a slacker :) :( heh wannabee... *bzzzzzzzzzt* see? no bee is "bz*t" the sound of a bee? brb rebooting -:- water [water@tnt-10-23.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] a bee that has smacked into the side of a tower case, surely it's bzzzzzzzz but thast one hit a wall there fore t :/ eihrul heh -:- water [water@tnt-10-100.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes wb water thx water is evidently not using Gnome :) no i use kde usually but i still don't have a linux/beos-friendly modem Winmodem? no pci pnp 11:00am beos? yeah it's a toy BeOS isn't all bad compared to most other "modern" OSs, it's quite impressive it's actually very nice for the programmer, but only if you use c++ no one wants to discuss something substantial? like what? sigh... -:- water has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Tunes - A Free Reflective Computing System (http://www.tunes.org/) | Slate (http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html) btw, how's Slate going? substansial.. anyone have an idea how I can get my own personal assistant from somewhere cheap to come and clean, cook and tidy my place? :) i'm still working on the spec, mostly Fufie, move down to Brazil... it's one of the last places in the world where middle-class families still have maids eihrul's really depressed, hence useless now water, a depressed hacker is no hacker at all :) very true kaufie: even middle-class spoiled brats like me have maids? :) sounds nice Fufie, I don't see why not :) 11:10am isn't the crime high "down there"? yeah, but you can hire some security gets pretty expensive quickly, eh? but brazil sounds nice yes maybe I'll set up shop there some winter not really... for a rich bastard like you... :) anyway, i'm dealing with making an oo language that's as malleable as lisp -:- rares [rares@nwhn-sh14-port183.snet.net] has left #tunes [Segflossed] lisp is an oo language brazil was a cool movie, or a terrible movie, depending on who you talk to :) fuf: i know the cost of living isn't that high, given that the poor people who work for you only get $80/mo worth of minimum wage $80/mo?? wowie that's an hour or two of a rented hired maid here water, I've made a bet with myself that, when you finish working at it, Slate will be exactly like CLOS :) s/hired// Fufie, yep trust me, its already much different water, I know... I'm just joking is $80/mo enough to live off or is it customary to pay more? e.g for someone who speaks norwegian or english :) Fufie, well, no one can really live with $80/mo... not decently, anyway. Over here, we pay two times that to our maid Oh man, this is really something... I've found a sci-fi RPG which seems to be stuck in the 1940's... LOL Fufie, oh, but tech jobs pay _much_ better... that is, unless you make the stupid choice of going to work for the gov't. hmm.. maybe brazil is something for me then.. the climate is better for my lungs LOL... hundreds of humanoid races with names like "Chorks" and "Kronians" 11:20am Fufie, well, _I_ hate it... maybe you'll like it *shudder* I just can't get it into my head that the new generation of so-called "hackers" is made up of people who say things like "Well, AI is a joke"... *shudder again* don't underestimate the importance of post-modernism * water/#tunes nods dreams can be nightmares to others the modernist belief was ridiculous though Fufie, I dunno... what's the importance of post-modernism? that it wrecked the automatic acceptance of anything said by a scientist or someone who looked important ah at least people think twice now well, okay but the post-modernism with it's feigned cynicism can be depressive and we don't want a generation of slackers Fufie, do they? Haven't most people just switched back to automatic acceptance of anything said by a preacher or a televangelist? ...or an Indian "guru"? ...or Uri Geller? The way I see it, pomo is the worst kind of cynicism... credulous cynicism or slashdot 11:30am smkl, or Slashdot :) I consider the fallback to dubious belief an instinctive reaction of people who think they are hurt by some criticism and then aggressively embrace their earlier errors pomo is not cynicism, it's feigned cynicism pomo people, or generation-x, think they are smarter than anyone else and goes out to prove it every day I really do think that it's time for a post-postmodernist revolution a cynicist reflects and sees he is a puppet of the more powerful forces and decides to act within or comment the system but never believes he can change anything a pomo-guy thinks he can change stuff, or at least that he is immune to other forces but how long will /. live? two years? lemme see if I can find that "philosophical Springer" page slashdot was much more interesting a year or two ago.. nowadays it's mostly trash Fufie, I think all .companies will go bankrupt in some two to three years... let's just see if /. will be able to carry on without Andover.net here it is... laugh: http://www.primenet.com/~benmoss/humor/springer.html -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes "I just can't go on having a relationship with a woman who doesn't believe I exist." ugh, cron sent my 400 emails last night LOL air... that's what you get for using Unix :) thats what i get for forgetting to shutdown ppp before going to bed 11:40am so how do i delete an entire thread in netscape 4 nm got it well, I'm off -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (A stranger is just an asshole you haven't met yet. -- Meet the Fascist Moderator at www.osopinion.com) 11:50am -:- lar1 [larman@2Cust34.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes hi lar Hey, water Que pasa? getting over my post-duty grog 12:30pm hmm when do you get out of military? or did you already? 2 years * water/#tunes contemplates full laziness in slate Who is up for a good low level discussion? :) does that mean the programs will never execute? lol you're kidding, right? me or lar1 ? smkl: you of course ok then well it seems that the defining thing about slate objects right now is that they are (suprise, surprise) functional expressions that construct the objects so you only get the "objects as containers of slots" view indirectly 12:40pm and the code model of a slate object's "method" is data-flow style so functional laziness helps to clarify 12:50pm -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- lar1 [lar1@2Cust34.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar1_ [lar1@1Cust198.tnt1.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [lar1@2Cust34.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has left #tunes [] -:- lar1_ is now known as lar1 -:- tcn [r@cci-209150250066.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hey tcn 01:40pm -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn36.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp317.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes hey brian yes? just saying hello oh not really in a thinking mood.. there seem to be a lot of people here with nothing to say as usual :( or nothing to say on #tunes at least heh. i'm almost always in a thinking mood :) Me too, but I went to a wedding yesterday what's a wedding have to do with thinking? :) the party :) Hard to think when you've been up to 4am oic so how's the hangover going? heh.. i wasn't that stupid :) k but I forgot how loud dance clubs are.. all the louder since I haven't been in a band for a couple months now.. what kind of band? this place had about 10kw of power directed onto a small dance floor sort of a rock/fusion band it was loud hm and christ, I heard more 80's cock rock yesterday than in all the 90's heh it's like you put 10 years between then and now, and it becomes Classic Cock 02:30pm they even played some at the dance club :P they played 'pour some sugar on me'.. I hate that shit! hm so how does one unify rock with fusion? rock with a better rhythm section :) yeah that seems about right and a little freer with the lead section -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!) you ever heard John Mclaughlin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra? nope Jeff Beck? hell yes nah, it wasn't like that.. nevermind :) heh well did you guys wind up making a lot of music? yes and no. Wrote about 30 songs, hardly anyone heard them. What instrument did you play? who cares if you got famous no, I mean we never played anywhere oh that's different then it was lame were you really that bad? we were pretty good but some of the other guys were really perfectionists. I can't agree with that. lar: electric guitar 02:40pm these guys wanted too much equipment iow they wanted a full jazz band they couldn't afford what they wanted, not to mention transportation. no, just 3-4 players, but tons of amplification ya can't amplify something that doesn't get heard :) tcn: Sweet. Thats what I (try) to pleay ;) :) how can 4 people do anything like fusion? i thought it takes at least 6 people to get a descent sound Those guys spent soo much time "perfecting" old tunes (fucking them up, IMO), recording, accumulating gear, smoking weed ah now we get to the rub :) "smoking weed" ruins every band :) Meanwhile I'm wanting to work on different stuff, more dancable music, ethnic music, etc.. and I'm trying to lighten my load.. I sold 8 speakers and a rack-mount amp, replacing it with a combo amp with 1 speaker :) as for the weed.. you smoke a 20 every day, it burns a hole in your pocket and you gotta work hard to pay for it. 20 a day? i should think it would you'd think it was smack hehe Woah.... thats more then the people I know at school smoke! ;) hm well i've never gotten involved with a band, but i can play rhythm these guys wouldn't cut back their 60-80 hours/week of shit work to make time for gigs.. we coulda made good money at gigs. afraid to commit 02:50pm -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) too bad I know people who make a living playing banjo :) heh but the main thing is, we were arguing about the musical direction so we split I hardly listened to any rock since then. I have about 50 CD's I got when I was a teenager.. mettallica, sabbath, stuff like that.. don't touch it :) I listen to about 10 60's-80's records :) and classical, folk, bluegrass, etc. heh.. I started playing violin :) Heh hm when I turn on the 'rock' stations it just sounds like static :) ever heard of ambient? weird huh? yeah but i can relate ambient, trance, etc? kinda suprisingly I still like 'industrial' music i group ambinet more with space music and i do still listen to some rock (the more elaborate kind) King Crimson does some 'ambient' tracks between songs is that some rock group? uhh, sorta experimental art-rock been around at least 30 years, done all kinds of shit ok reminds me of YES a little oh progressive? * water/#tunes glances at his 10 yes albums wow :) 03:00pm KC is probably more experimental ok look for some mp3's :) i've only heard 2 KC albums.. one from the 70's, one from the 90's heh.. did I tell ya about my friend who thought Rush had a female singer? lol no heh "I don't like her voice" the weirdest stuff i've ever listened to and liked was ambient stuff there's some really weird ambient that most people find hard to imagine as music at all yeah I never got an appreciation for it although it's fantastic for meditation I don't think I have ever heard ambient hehe.. you ever heard of Harry Partsch? No lar1: future sound of london brian eno, even eno? which reminds me, he wrote the M$ 95 startup sound haha BAD eno :) yeah i haven't bought any of his albums because of that I heard a cool song he did in the 70's.. sort of proto-techno (done with guitars and typical rock instruments) yeah he's a former rocker i happen to like steve roach a lot more... he's more into space music and tribal and he's very prolific heard him on the radio recently really? did they play his stuff? yeah can't remember if it was on the new-age show or the college station 03:10pm do you remember what it was titled? nope now, Harry Partsch wrote some weird shit.. microtonal/atonal music played on instruments he designed. I wouldn't exactly call it music :) water: What Futer Sound of London album do you reccomend? heh apparently it makes most people nauseous lar1: isdn or fsol water: ok yes atonality tends to drive people off hehe i've heard some fractal stuff that drove people up the wall if only I coulda played it last night :) heh for the drunk fucks christ, they were jumping on the bed in the hotel room above the newlyweds :) * water/#tunes has a bad picture in his mind that's crazy heh they all hurled ok you didn't have to mention that :) trashed the place I can just picture a scene from The Wall Oh? I went home before they started spewing chunks water: Hmmm... Future Sound of London is... interesting.... mp3's make ambient sound like trash i can't stand listening to mp3's of songs i really enjoy Nor can I whoa, that bad? i've never listened to one! tcn: If you are an audiophile... don't bother hehe yeah i grab all 24-bit recordings of stuff i like all i've heard is record industry lawyers on the news, bitching about people distributing free "CD-quality" copies water: Raw .wav? Um... can I borrow your 100TB array, please? 03:20pm * water/#tunes slaps lar1 around a bit with his 56k modem yeah i call it my case of CD's :) I guess most MP3s are digitized with noisy no-name soundcards water: Heh tcn: No-name encoder, no-name cd, no-name everything.... and stupid people that don't know how to use the program... :) My 8-bit SBpro sounds better than most 16/32/64-bit cards tcn: no it's definitely the algorithm water: But the hardware _doesn't _ help i suppose it's both it'd be nice if wavelet encoding were popularized wavelet? yeah, how's that work? hm -:- rares [rares@nwhn-sh13-port37.snet.net] has joined #tunes abi foldoc for wavelet wavelet may be sought in foldoc at http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=wavelet heh.. just heard a Steve Roach song cool one of the new ones? didn't catch the name yeah, new it was pretty cool.. relaxing but interesting yeah he's playing with some new software toys lately yah hey, I heard an interview with Robert Moog last week * lar1/#tunes whishes he had a station here that played electronica lar1: electronica is strictly d&b in seattle d&b? actually, there's a tiny bit of trance, too drum&bass the newest dance fad that got old quick ;) not here, it didn't I hear it once in awhile on the college station, that's it always this backwards shit water: ever hear of kitaro? 03:30pm yep Like em? he's sort of new age inclined not really, he's sort of backwards Hmm What is the all synthesiser no-lyrics kinda music called? there's a big distinction between artists that do old stuff with new instruments and vice versa