IRC log started Mon Feb 28 00:00:02 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0228 -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us928.javanet.com] has joined #tunes water: here? 01:40am -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has left #tunes [] sorry i felll asleep i expected as much send u mail s/send/sent/ i see, thx made up a new acronym abi: tulsa? somebody said tulsa was a Thing U've Likely Seen Already heh i don't think i've see two-thrids of this stuff have fun ;) it's a really good thing that i sorted my papers thx unfortunately have to spend Yet Another 24-hour stretch on the ship :( ouch it happens every 4 days haven't you noticed? is there an easy way to extract abstracts from papers? damn i remember something about sheaf theory, but i can't remember from where not with postscript 03:00am i was just wondering if there was some (painless to u) way to make a webpage w/ the abstracts yeah, research indices ;) from ur collection this could be annotated and be perhaps tunes' paper review like a creme of the crop collection as long as it's easily maintainable -:- hcf_ [nef@me-portland-us146.javanet.com] has joined #tunes thats always a good idea killer -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf_ is now known as hcf this rewrite idea could be useful ina direct way, but we'd have to introduce the idea of non-deterministic substitution mechanisms, which could be meat-programmatically determined s/meat/meta anything like that already exist? i don't know... it's a pretty weird idea of course it exists in maude :) oh ok... "hybrid" is what the ABCL/R fellows are working on q: why are you up this leate/early? net connection is best from midnight on 03:10am wtf do you do for a living? heh uhm no job seriously ? leach from parentals i'm sorry i asked whys that? it bothers me do the maude ppl use anything special in their site? what constitutes "special"? anything that could be useful in the paper rev yeah they have a decent rewrite paper collection i mean backend wise hm most likely not "inheritance via sheaf morphisms" hrm 03:20am wow. research_index timed out did u search RI for 'sheaf'? not yet i got msgs like: System busy. Please wait... System load high. get off my back... System still busy...stop burdening it... System still busy (try later or else)... yep yeah sheafs related to toplogy (cohomologies and all that) fun reading material ;) 03:30am i actually love that stuff, but reading papers on it is a terrible task hehe * water/#tunes just envisioned "homology for dummies" or maybe just "really obscure research mathematics for dummies" grr well cya on tuesday -:- water [water@tnt-9-62.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] bi -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) 03:40am -:- smkl [sami@130.232.143.28] has joined #tunes -:- kaufmann [kaufmann@ravel.fluid.impa.br] has joined #tunes foo -:- smoke [smoke@vengeance.et.tudelft.nl] has joined #tunes hello smoke 06:20am -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-130-58.s566.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes hey Alan 07:00am om I'm off now -:- kaufmann [kaufmann@ravel.fluid.impa.br] has left #tunes [] why does my windows shell crash when I print something? -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) 07:20am -:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152]) -:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn175.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- Fufie [stig@129.177.44.38] has joined #tunes morning evening 09:40am -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #TUNES -:- mode/#tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ abi seen water water was last seen on IRC 6 hours, 28 minutes and 55 seconds ago, saying: well cya on tuesday [Mon Feb 28 03:34:04 2000] abi: seen water water was last seen on IRC 6 hours, 29 minutes and 1 seconds ago, saying: well cya on tuesday [Mon Feb 28 03:34:04 2000] -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh3-port23.snet.net] has joined #tunes hi hey 10:10am what do you have to do with TUNES? fascination with reflective abjects (including real mirrors) do you have any links to reflection we can add to http://www.tunes.org/Review/Reflection.html ? if so, email them to review@tunes.org I'm interested in reflection, but what's an abject and a real mirror? object misspelled and looking glass are you talking about the essay "A Lisp Through the Looking Glass" by John Sturdy? no (http://www.cb1.com/~john/thesis.html) It's pretty good Is "looking glass" a standard term? or you just not good at English and trying to give synonyms? I mean I'm fascinated by any reflective object whether made of atoms or bits and bytes and what's your definition of reflection? looking glass was a refernce to Alice in Wonderland yes, ok reflection is two things in the world of programming related objects just two? one is a capability that allows and expert system to infer information and find functionality requested by looking not at the definition of the objects it knows about but by looking at the structure of those objects and their behaviour 10:20am the other thing reflection is or allows is the creation of a system made of a few objects with enough inter[pretations to allow it to cover many topics and execute many tasks yet small enough that anyone can remember it from memory yeah, that is what we want to do. Know of anything like it? * thomas/#tunes think it sounds like 1: dynamic typing and 2: good enough language yup those are important things well it's all coming full circle softwware replaces the laws of physics in computer science now people are discovering that if the software acted more like the laws of physics then computers instantly become more intelligent I think that the laws of information/communication are more fundamental than the laws of physics. information/communication are equivalent to thermodynamics just more controllable ok, what are they? think about this for a second 10:30am you move an orange from one table to another table you're really talking about 'entropy' ( or something ) right automatically the orange fails to exist on the original table that's implicit in the laws of physics conservation laws are part of it entropy is part of it now with normal software objects you literally have to delete the orange from the original table if you want a video game to make sense if you work with reflective software objects you no loger have to that why? I remember having a simular discussion with Fufie because reflective environment include the funtionality of deleting objects within them computers only simulate ok, so deleting oneself is an important ability in order to get a really good realistic simulation you have tpo double the work you wpould do in normal life ( I can believe that ) in normal real;ity even ? ? to what? what do you mean by "doubling the work"? the deleting part is the other half of the work ohhh! do you realize how many cycles are wasted having to explicitly delete objects But what if you employ a 'destroyer', like some mythologies do, and have it destroy things as they drift outside the imediate reallity ( a GC ) you waste those cycles anyway while doing work with reflective objects but it saves you the work of actually having to program them 10:40am having to program them to destroy themselves gc's are lifesa vvers what do put in the term 'existance' here? existance? does an object exist if it is in a reachable memory area what exactly are you asking? or does an object exist only when it is interacting with other object - thus beeing evaluated both how does you destroy an object then? the first is clipboard with is limited by the second you destroy it when you no longer need it there'sa a limit though people should use computers for whatever they want yepp, those are presise and adequate heuristics - keep only what you need but at the same time people should use computers not the other way around the "who's going going to adjust to who" problem we all like computers to do what we do like we like to do it, but -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us700.javanet.com] has joined #tunes 10:50am lets face it, there are restrictions - hell there are restrictions in "real" reallity as well, and I don't see anyone complain about gravitational pull :) Why is automatic deleting an essential part of reflection? because it represents the world you are simulating more accurately let's say you are testing a control and test group on a multiprocessor system any object that is deleted should be deleted from all the cache lines of all the processors Tril, ultimatly we cannot guarantee that something has no future restrictions. It is natrual to require an os to have no restrictions because the system it operates on has none ( debatable ) . If things in the os couldn't delete themselves, than that would be a restriction. gravity is a feature not a bug you could not move w/o friction and gravity ensures continued source of friction 11:00am so, regardless of wheter or not object selfdeletion is a neccessity, the fact that it could be a nessesity makes it an essantial _potential_ feature. yup rares, regarding features and bugs, if selfdeletion is a feature, then it should be possible to 'disable' it, and if it not a feature by default it should be possible to implement yup see that's where virtual reality is cool you have the option to represent a paradox withouthe system crashing as long asit's not in the code itself but the objects u use but virtual reality sucks when you have to p;lay by rules because you need to keep the code small but you also want tro be accurate just you wait rtill wearable computers go on sale then it gets crazy aren't those always the cases? yup so you have a choice for your needs 11:10am anyhow I'm outta here -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (KVirc 1.0.0 Millennium BETA 3) bi -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- NetSplit: clarke.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [11:16am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [clarke.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: clarke.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- ServerMode/#tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net 11:20am abi: seen fare fare was last seen on IRC 1 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes and 47 seconds ago, saying: actually, she's the gaklosmonticest. [Sun Feb 27 07:25:26 2000] gah 11:40am -:- NetSplit: clarke.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [12:08pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [clarke.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: clarke.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- ServerMode/#tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net -:- NetSplit: clarke.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [12:26pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [clarke.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: clarke.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- ServerMode/#tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net -:- NetSplit: clarke.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [12:32pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [clarke.openprojects.net] -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- ServerMode/#tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-50-119.s373.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- Netjoined: clarke.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- ServerMode/#tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250043.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (Ping timeout for pyro[cci-209150250043.clarityconnect.net]) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh4-port178.snet.net] has joined #tunes -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250139.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes Tril: i want to run an eggdrop from bespin 01:30pm -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (KVirc 1.0.0 Millennium BETA 3) -:- NetSplit: clarke.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [01:57pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [clarke.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: clarke.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- ServerMode/#tunes [+o Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net -:- ult [noone@user-38lcn73.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes wh0a -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!) 02:40pm -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes * AlonzoTG/#tunes hurls a laser guided flaming woodchuck at ult -:- kreator [kreator@cable-168-25-237-24.fairbanks.ak.net] has joined #tunes -:- kreator [kreator@cable-168-25-237-24.fairbanks.ak.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- pyro is now known as tcn -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (changing servers) -:- tcn [tcn@cci-209150250139.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes we probably write "polymorphic" Forth all the time ahh crap, damn bitchX -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net]) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes 04:00pm -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh9-port3.snet.net] has joined #tunes -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [larman@209.245.131.52] has joined #tunes Hey om 05:30pm Tril! I didn't notice you! good, I was away Whats up? Long time no IRC... 05:40pm I'll reply to your e-mail in a while.. I'm talking to someone right now Ok, its a short mail Tril: i'm running an eggdrop from bespin now Tril: I am running a perlbot. Brianna logs like TUNES and does factiods like abi (factoids disabled right now so I can rewrite the code) 05:50pm -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (Ping timeout for rares[wtrb-sh9-port3.snet.net]) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh1-port25.snet.net] has joined #tunes -:- mikes [user1463@98C98871.ipt.aol.com] has joined #tunes -:- mikes [user1463@98C98871.ipt.aol.com] has left #tunes [] -:- ult [noone@PPPa6-ResaleNashville1-2R1023.saturn.bbn.com] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Read error to eihrul[usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net]: EOF from client) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[207-172-50-119.s373.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]) -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh1-port25.snet.net] has left #tunes [Segmentation] -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp124.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us118.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[209.245.131.52]) -:- trompie [leach@w-242n38.sequent.com] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn175.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (Ping timeout for abi[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by varley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from carter.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is carter.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from carter.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from carter.openprojects.net) -:- carter.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(62)] 9% -:- [global users on irc(318)] 45% -:- [invisible users on irc(392)] 55% -:- [ircops on irc(15)] 2% -:- [total users on irc(710)] -:- [unknown connections(1)] -:- [total servers on irc(30)] (avg. 23 users per server) -:- [total channels created(253)] (avg. 2 users per channel) !carter.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 82 (81 clients) !carter.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 3 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System @ http://www.tunes.org || slate @ http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html || WebMind @ http://www.intelligenesis.net/ -:- topic set by water [Sun Feb 27 15:16:38 2000] -:- [Users(#tunes:10)] [ TUNES ] [ smoke ] [ trompie ] [ _ruiner_ ] [ air ] [ Fufie ] [ thomas ] [ smkl ] [ Fare ] [ Plundis ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 8.499 secs!! -:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- trompie [leach@w-242n38.sequent.com] has left #tunes [] [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0229 IRC log ended Tue Feb 29 00:00:02 2000