IRC log started Tue Oct 26 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1026
<water> i used to be a good programmer, but i gradually got sick of it
<water> i actually wrote a family of graphics engines that were really fast and feature-laden
<Zhivago> hmm, I don't much like feature-laden to be honest
<water> they wound up pretty professional-looking, too
<Zhivago> I prefer my systems elegant
<water> well, the code was designed for a particular application
<Zhivago> nothing needs to be added, and nothing more to be removed
<water> so, i optimized it for specific tasks
<water> feature-laden is relative... i needed the features
<Zhivago> fair enough
<water> otherwise, the output quality looked really bad
<Zhivago> heh :)
<water> it was a space flight engine
<Zhivago> ahh
<water> i was working with some really weird constraints
<water> bleh. that's for another time
<water> my problem is that i've looked into too many mathematical texts
<water> trying to formalize my problem and factor out the solved bits
<water> without this effort, though, i wouldn't have been able to reduce the problem to "arrow"
<water> i used to think that a programming language could do it
<water> it's funny, because i've been programming since i was six
<water> i taught myself everything about applebasic and a little asm without any manuals
12:10am
<water> well, this is enough chat for me
<water> i will see you in a few days
<water> good night
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12:20am
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<Nithia> Hello anyone there?
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01:50am
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<water> Fare?
<abi> Fare is sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) or pronounced Fahree
<water> eek
04:20am
<Fare> water?
<abi> water is at http://www.tunes.org/~water/water.html or an expression of the Tao or our island of intelligence or mailto:water@tunes.org
<water> heh
<Fare> ehe
<water> abi: agt
<abi> agt is Around Goedel's Theorem at http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/
<water> live it, love it, learn it :)
<Fare> ok
<water> well, skip the familiar parts
<water> it covers a lot of theory that doesn't bear repeating
<water> well, gotta go
<water> see ya in a few days
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04:30am
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<fire> bonjour
06:50am
<fire> :(
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07:00am
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<rares> hey
<rares> if water could define his ideas as a technique then try to implement it it would be a lot easier for ppl to contribute
07:30am
<rares> shit gotta go 
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07:40am
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<core> people hi
* AlonzoTG/#tunes hurls a laser guided flaming woodchuck at core
<hcf> hi core
<core> er hi al
<core> hey hcf :)
<hcf> core: many ppl seemingly always want u to be here and to talk to u, but they rnt here atm
<core> hcf: yeah, i skim through the logs occasionally.. of course when i have time to drop in, noone is here :) not that i know why in the world i'd be so popular :P
<hcf> popularity by absence?
<core> hehe.. must be it. the less i speak the more intelligent i seem to be :)
<hcf> eihrul has done 'abi: seen core's since 1010
<hcf> s/done/done 8/
<core> hehe.. well, i'd be glad to talk to him too, if he drops in someday
10:10am
<core> hm, well, i'll be back :) you have a good day :)
-:- SignOff core: #TUNES (vroom)
<hcf> he here often, u must of hit the one blind spot in his #tunes attendance
<hcf> k, ltr
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || Around Goedel's Theorem <http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/>
10:20am
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<Kaufmann> Shalom!
<Kaufmann> Where the hell is .lv ?!? Latvia?
<Kaufmann> abi, .lv?
<abi> i haven't a clue, kaufmann
<smkl> Kaufmann: yeah
<Kaufmann> Damn, I was guessing... I wasn't even sure there /was/ a Latvia
01:00pm
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<KaufmannBRB> Hey beh
<beholder> Hey 
<beholder> Just came here lookin for water. 
<beholder> abi: seen water?
<abi> water was last seen on IRC 8 hours, 42 minutes and 9 seconds ago, saying: see ya in a few days [Tue Oct 26 04:23:09 1999]
<beholder> Damn, I guess he's gone :)
<air> could one of u mail me a gun?
<air> a loaded gun
<beholder> air: Brix gone bad? ;)
<air> im sick
<beholder> air: Ahh, that sucks
<KaufmannBRB> air, feeling like exercising your 2nd Amendment rights?
<air> heh
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<KaufmannBRB> hey
<td> lo
<beholder> Hey
01:10pm
<beholder> Crap... Can't find any info on ontonology in search engines..
<KaufmannBRB> perhaps you're spellnig it worng?
<beholder> I think so
<hcf> ontology
<air> isnt it ontology?
<KaufmannBRB> yep
<KaufmannBRB> it's ontology
<beholder> Ahh, yes less an n :)
<hcf> beholder: looking for anything specific?
-:- KaufmannBRB is now known as Kaufmann
<beholder> hcf: Nope, just learning more about it
01:20pm
<Kaufmann> *sigh*
01:30pm
<Kaufmann> Well, I'm leaving
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01:40pm
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<air> does anyone here know howto redirect stdout to /dev/null?
02:00pm
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<air> hcf: do u know howto redirect stdout to /dev/null?
<td> cat file.txt 2>/dev/null
<air> td: in C
<td> oh.
<td> hrm. just close() the stdin fd
<td> er stdout even
<air> i need to redirect the stdout before i start the program
<td> uh
<td> just close() it right after main()
<td> no way to redirect by the prorgam, before the program starts
<air> yes there is
<air> right now i am redirecting to a pipe
<td> hrm. i dont see how.. without some other program
<air> but i dont read from that pipe and it fills up and stalls bochs
<air> in my program i fork a process and run bochs in a shell in it
<td> oh.
<td> your running a program within C
<td> i thought you meant the program itself
<air> ya
<air> my program is a gui fro another
<air> but that program writes all the good info to stderr and some crap to stdout
02:10pm
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<rares> so wsup
-:- air has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || Around Goedel's Theorem <http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/> || BFE now works with latest bochs
02:40pm
<air> kewl i just got a bug in egcs
<rares> air has gcs on his face
<rares> egcs even
<air> do u use bochs?
<rares> nope
<rares> i have cillyrix processor
<rares> (used to be a great company)
<rares> but my little processor isn't made to survive OS matrioschkas
<air> uhh ok :)
02:50pm
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<rares> hey
<hcf> eihrul: core was here earlier
<eihrul> ah, thanks
<hcf> said he'd be back
<air> eihrul: bfe now works with all versions of bochs
<eihrul> what was the problem?
<air> bochs sends a "[bochs]:" to stdout when u do a memory dump
<air> so i redirected stdout to /dev/null
<eihrul> shouldn't effect what yu're reading off stderr
<air> i think stdout was filling up and stalling bochs
03:00pm
<air> anyone know what a flip-chip cpu looks like?
<air> FCPA
03:10pm
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<smoke> hello
04:00pm
<air> hi
<smoke> !addword Goedel read an online book about him at http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/
<smoke> oops
<rares> wheres plasma there has to be a plasma on the list :)
04:10pm
<smoke> hum?
<rares> air water smoke plasma it makes sense
<air> we also have fire
<rares> well then core fits in just nicely
<air> heh
* rares/#tunes sits back
<smoke> rare: heh :)
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<rares> course if you get into gravity field conspitheoracies then the core is soft 
04:20pm
<Fare> hum. Gakuk!
04:30pm
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<Beholder> Hey Fare
<Fare> yeah, beholder!
<Beholder> :)
<Beholder> How are ya?
04:40pm
<Fare> am I?
<Beholder> Fare: Yes, you
<Fare> are?
<Beholder> Fare: I was reading some interesting things about ontology research, seems to have much potential for an AI type system.
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<Fare> typesystem??
<air> that wasnt one word
<eihrul> wasnt isn't one word either
<Beholder> Fare: I'm not sure if it would benefit that.  It's more for abstract information kinda like water's arrows system I guess.
<air> eihrul: go ahead and add punctuation to yer sentences but im not going to
04:50pm
* hcf/#tunes sides w/ air
<eihrul> punctuation is highly underrated
<Fare> not in C
<eihrul> not in lisp either
<air> eihrul: have u used the RET N instruction?
<eihrul> nope
05:00pm
<eihrul> why?
<air> it says N is bytes in 16bit mode and words in 32bit mode
<air> which is kinda dumb cuz the stack is words and dwords
<eihrul> eh dude?
<eihrul> it says bytes here for me
<eihrul> in both cases
<Fare> air: ain't it rather words and dwords?
<Fare> or is it the size of N itself?
<Fare> anyway, ask nasm and/or gas or gdb...
05:10pm
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<air> eihrul: goto the last page for ret
<air> The optional numeric parameter to the RET instruction gives the number of stack bytes
<air> (OperandMode=16) or words (OperandMode=32) to be released after the return address is
<air> popped.
05:20pm
<eihrul> nah
<air> nah what
<eihrul> nah, i don't feel like searching through the instruction manual
<air> heh
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<air> hmm there is no indirect far call
<eihrul> dunno how that would work
<eihrul> since it would require two registers
<air> 48bit memory
05:30pm
<eihrul> or 32 bit (with 16 bit registers)
<air> a 16bit index would suck
05:40pm
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<air> ok brix is now alot faster cuz methods make direct calls to other methods
<eihrul> how so?
<air> well before i was creating a thread for every method call
<air> now i only create threads for async calls
* eihrul/#tunes ponders the similarity between that and thread migration. :)
<air> this isnt thread migration
<air> its a direct call between functions
<air> same stack
<air> same thread
<eihrul> not secure though
<air> ya it is
<eihrul> how?
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<air> secure language
<air> remember that i now only have a single address space
<eihrul> then its just a call... you can implement a secure language atop any single address space
05:50pm
<air> ya im making direct calls instead of spawning threads
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<eihrul> well what's so novel about that?
06:00pm
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<lar1> Hey
<hcf> hoy
<lar1> YAY AIR!
<lar1> Thanks for fixing BFE!
07:20pm
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<lar1> eihrul:  Ever hear "I think not, therefore I am not?"
<lar1> s/?/.
08:00pm
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<lar1> wb hcf
<hcf> thx
<hcf> i see lots o' nothing happened while i was gone
<lar1> Yup
<lar1> I don't think anyone is awake
09:00pm
<air> back
<lar1> Hey air!
<lar1> thanks for finxing BFE!
<air> heh
<air> well i was highly motivated to fix it
<lar1> You wanted those pentium instructions, eh?
<air> i required the use of 486 instructions in brix and the old bochs doesnt do 486
<lar1> Well, I am glad you fixed it :)
09:10pm
<air> do u use it?
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<eihrul> gakuk
<air> eihrul: i didnt say there was any novel about my new method of calling methods
<lar1> air:  Yes I use it lots (BFE, Bochs)
<air> eihrul: i was saying that i removed the slow way of making calls
<air> lar1: kewl
<air> lar1: kevin is going to add a link for bfe to the bochs page
<lar1> air:  Will BFE display my page tables as a data struct?
<lar1> air:  Sweet
<air> lar1: then others will contribute to it and make it better
<air> yes it can
<eihrul> like removing those global variables you put in there? :)
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<air> eihrul: ha ha ha :)
<eihrul> global state == evil
<lar1> eihrul whats bad about global?
<eihrul> everything
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<lar1> brb
09:20pm
<AWOL_SSC> anyone alive in here tonite?
<air> yes
<AWOL_SSC> cool
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<AWOL_SSC> sorry...got reset
<hcf> AWOL_SSC: u were saying?
<AWOL_SSC> I was wondering if any of you know anything about pmode
<air> yep
<AWOL_SSC> goodgood...  I'm working on this OS and every time I try to switch to it, I get rebooted
<AWOL_SSC> it = pmode
<air> triple fault
<AWOL_SSC> but why is it doing that?
<AWOL_SSC> ideas?
<air> do u know where its happening?
<AWOL_SSC> when I set the pmode bit
<air> have u verified that?
<air> do u use bochs?
<AWOL_SSC> I don't even know what that is
<air> bochs
<air> bochs?
<AWOL_SSC> yeah
<air> crap abi is gone
<hcf> abi: bochs?
<abi> bochs is a PC emulator at http://www.bochs.com that runs on win32, un*x, beos, mac, os/2 and amiga
<air> bochs is a pc emulator at www.bochs.com
<air> hcf: why didnt abi respond to me?
<hcf> air: i dont recall
<air> AWOL_SSC: send me a binary and ill tell u whats wrong
09:30pm
<AWOL_SSC> you'll need 2 files I think...  lemme double check
<hcf> air: as far as i can see, it was cuz of the way u repeated urself
<air> i just need the bootable image
<AWOL_SSC> ok
<air> hcf: eh?
<hcf> air: try again
<air> bochs?
<abi> rumour has it bochs is a PC emulator at http://www.bochs.com that runs on win32, un*x, beos, mac, os/2 and amiga
<lar1> got to go
<lar1> talk to you alls later
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[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1027
IRC log ended Wed Oct 27 00:00:00 1999