IRC log started Mon Oct 4 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1004 12:10am -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- SignOff demoncrat: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes abi: abi? abi is, like, only a bot abi: bot? i haven't a clue, smkl abi: infobot? hmmm... infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot 06:00am -:- hcf [nef@209.94.146.127] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us316.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-244.ici.net] has joined #tunes hello all anyone awake who knows how to code in assembler? 10:00am i have coded in 16-bit asm for dos 10:10am Well, this isn't x86 asm, but do you think you could learn it? I've never done assembler before perhaps ok, I'll DCC you the draft of it 10:20am hmm .. i can't find out what the registers are called? I'll ask %r1 %r2, etc up to 64 check that, starts with %r0 and goes to %r63 10:40am -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us316.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us716.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- Miellaby [sgarden@Rennes-Villejean-1-138.club-internet.fr] has joined #TUNES Hi :) hello 'water' is not here? 01:10pm Bye;] -:- SignOff Miellaby: #TUNES (Leaving) 01:20pm -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1000.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by lewis.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from clarke.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is clarke.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from clarke.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 13 24:47 EDT(from clarke.openprojects.net) -:- clarke.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(19)] 4% -:- [global users on irc(222)] 42% -:- [invisible users on irc(308)] 58% -:- [ircops on irc(15)] 3% -:- [total users on irc(530)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(34)] (avg. 15 users per server) -:- [total channels created(145)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !clarke.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 25 (24 clients) !clarke.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Free Reflective Computing System || http://aftersleeves.org/apostle/ || http://netpedia.net/sites.html || BRiX IS WORKING!!! || #modtunes now has a logger || http://burns.daimi.au.dk -:- topic set by hcf [Sat Oct 2 12:50:33 1999] -:- [Users(#Tunes:7)] [ TUNES ] [ hcf ] [ Fare ] [ Downix ] [ smkl ] [@Tril ] [ abi ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 [openprojects]!clarke.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lewis.openprojects.net. -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.891 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES !netgod:*! our t3 is experiencing technical difficulties -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (BitchX: not from concentrate) -:- water [water@tnt-9-225.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes hello, all -:- water has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System at http://www.tunes.org/ -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Read error to water[tnt-9-225.tscnet.net]: Connection reset by peer) 05:00pm -:- change_m1 [user1993@d185fc314.rochester.rr.com] has joined #Tunes -:- change_m1 [user1993@d185fc314.rochester.rr.com] has left #Tunes [] -:- water [water@tnt-10-51.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes lo hey 05:30pm -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp41.lvdi.net]) -:- fire [no@209-68-229-230.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes oh great :D water: do you think the arrow system could be applied to law and government? philosophically, or software-wise? (both, yes) philosophically heh arrow applies to things more well then tunes does, imo oic arrow-style gov't would be unusual, to say the least 05:50pm bah it would own it would definitely be classified as anarchic and homoiconic law :D "law" in arrow? yes why not our system of laws is messed up well, sure laws basically describe the behavior of a model of a system violating laws implies a context-shift "if i violate the law, then i no longer conform to the model" m hm facinating (i butchered it's spelling) gov't only relies on one first-order (somewhat contradictory and confusing) model for everyone speaking of firs-order first i am totally confused as to what high and first order means the arrow system would allow "violating" any law, since it would directly be interested in context-shifts oh ok might i mooch it off you? sure... higher-order systems allow the use of variables that can take the value of, say, predicates or functions, instead of the things the pred's or func's are evaluated upon example? well, in Basic, you can't assign a procedure to a variable, in the sense that you can re-assign it or quantify it so, it's very much not higher-order * fire/#tunes feels offended that water uses basic as an example for him ;) but ML is higher-order, because functions can handle other functions, and variables can be assigned to functions and re-assigned and quantified like return values of functions for example ? C would be a more common example, but it is very dirty (+ (- 5 6) 7)? zero whoa! heh abi: + 4 3? zero n/m 06:00pm water: what about my lisp example? yeah, like in lisp the important thing is variables, because they allow you to quantify so if you can use a function as an argument it would be high order? yep or a predicate or an object i see oh speaking of objects i was thinking more about functions being objects as well as data as in? the problem is, what if you want to use one procedure a lot huh? that's a problem? wouldn't you have to keep defining objects? i think that you mean function _closures_ closures are applications of functions to data hmmm they usually don't "actually" get allocated as objects, unless an error occurs, and the closure must be handled by other objects (as it is in smalltalk) hmmm ok it's just so sexy to make everything an object :D uhh heh i know i know it just makes me feel so tingly to find a very elegant solution to a problem yeah 06:10pm code and data unified was one thing os's and programming languages unified was another but smalltalk takes the cake :D wait till classes and objects are unified in self :) ... lol my oh my ok tell me how that works unfortunately, self doesn't have near the support that smalltalk does ok i don't want to define a new object everytime self started as an extension to smalltalk instead of subclassing a class to make a new object behavior, you instead just take an object, clone it and modify it directly and cloning is the way you make any new object you can even inherit behaviors from one object and data from another hmmm because self abstracts variables, data _is_ an object's behavior for the accssor functions and this gives the advantage of much more advanced inheritance? yes and simplification i assume wow i sure do love unification which is great when you don't want to deal with how complicated classes and metaclasses are yes indeed how all this simplifies objects is amazing if you've ever programmed in C++ you can change the cloning relationship via "object mirrors" (reflection) eek yes, it certainly does actually, there's some complicated compiler ideas from the sun labs that allows self to run as fast as c++ _dynamically_ so basically you have one object apply a cloning object to it which creates and exact duplicate? yep well, sort of it's encapsulated by sending a message to the object 06:20pm remarkable well, it takes using squeak to convince most people of how powerful the idea is that pretty much does all the simplifying you can possibly do to an object system yeah well, the squeak coders are working hard to make it work together better. there are still many bugs but then, most all of the code is experimental im not really familier with squek i've just heard a lot about it abi: squeak? squeak is a cool language descended from Smalltalk, at http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/ or at http://www.squeak.org/ or The open source mouse that roars! 06:30pm i gotta go now :( -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes i hope you'll look forward to our next session in which you will explain garbage collection to me :D hi air im about to leave bye fire :D -:- SignOff fire: #TUNES (blarg) -:- water [water@tnt-10-51.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- water [water@tnt-10-51.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes 06:40pm 1. Customer: I'm running Windows 95... Helpdesk: Yes... Customer: ...and now my computer stopped working! Helpdesk: Yes, you already said that. lol 2. Microsoft broke Volkswagen's world record: Volkswagen only made 22 million bugs! hey! no spam! heh that is good spam good or bad, it is still spam no, good spam is ok actually, that reminds me to ask... i'm having problems with my linux box could you help? :) acutally, i'll meander over to #linpeople what kinda problems forget it 06:50pm 10. Windows95 does really have preemptive Multitasking: It can boot and crash at the same time. 21. Hiroshima '45 - Tschernobyl '86 - Windows '95 BRiX '02 whatever 07:00pm well, i will go playa netgame now -:- water [water@tnt-10-51.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] 07:10pm -:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.245.137.144.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes Hey 08:10pm -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[dialup-209.245.137.144.SanJose1.Level3.net]) -:- lar1 [LarMan@sdn-ar-002casfrMP005.dialsprint.net] has joined #tunes hey my keyboard code works Very cool Is the demo interactive now? not quite my run queue list has a linking problem and it kinda crashes when after removing the threads that get/process the key Heh and for some reason brix works in bochs but not on a real machine u got any 386's? Umm Yes I have a 386 laptop that is half appart I can run somthing on it if you need 09:00pm ok hold on k I am in winstupid... how should I write it? rawrite 09:10pm Hmmm, ok What is this suppossed to do? its brix did u run it? u will either get a prompt that u can type at, and it will crash/lockup or it will just go into a continuous reboot cycle Nope in bochs it will display the prompt and lockup when u press a key on all my real machines it just reboots before showing the prompt Hmm, why would it be different for me? im wondering if it has to do with a bug in bochs that doesnt correctly emulate a 386 or if it is failing on 486 and up cuz of soemthing the 386 dont have ugh, i dont understand this. looking at my code to add/del threads from the run queue it appears to work correctly in all situations -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[sdn-ar-002casfrMP005.dialsprint.net]) 09:20pm -:- water [water@tnt-10-216.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-10-216.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp124.lvdi.net] has joined #Tunes -:- td [x@1Cust124.tnt3.wilmington.nc.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Read error to eihrul[usr5-ppp124.lvdi.net]: EOF from client) -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp124.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp124.lvdi.net]) -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp162.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1005 IRC log ended Tue Oct 5 00:00:00 1999