IRC log started Sun Jul 25 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0725 -:- SignOff Mr_Wrong: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Mr_Wrong[adsl-63-192-213-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net]) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp30.lvdi.net] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff s_r: #TUNES (Ping timeout for s_r[phila-dialup482.nni.com]) -:- smoke [smoke@13dyn152.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes hi salut, smoke 03:00am -:- SignOff liar: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) !sterling.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT lackey.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (brb) !devlin.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT jordan.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo -:- ElGato [dave@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes hello? 07:00am * ElGato/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On] -:- smoke [smoke@13dyn152.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes * ElGato/#tunes is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 4 min 42 secs sm0k3 :D hi what's up, smoke 07:10am hmmm, my new computer should come in tommorow; the first day i will be gone for the week :\ -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250109.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes tcn!!! 07:20am hey, you heard the news? no you can compile retro now !!! i gotta talk to you about retro and the FPU I merge v9 back into CVS... so just grab the .tar.bz2 snapshot and that's all ya need now im gonna need somewhere to store the FPU state for each task the TSS well, before/after the TSS yes it turns out it's more efficient to align TSS's on 256-byte boundaries, so it's ok to bloat 'em up a little 94 bytes preferably doubleword aligned ok well forth isn't multi-tasking yet is it? er retro but anyway, don't worry about that context-switching the whole FPU is gonna be slow hmmm but it would be ok to do it for a few tasks you only switch it when you need to just switch it when you need to and you'll be ok yeah you notice how the 80x87 is a stack machine? now tell me how to use patch_int yes Forth has a separate floating-point stack.. we could keep the top 8 elements right in the FPU regs, and move them to RAM as needed hmmm callproc patch_int, ,

07:30am CPU exceptions are ints 0-18 (reserved up to 31), hardware IRQ's are ints 32-48, 49-255 are unused currently. but how do i make a proc that acts as an exception handler in retro? put the proc name in place f

? yeah ok of course the int handler won't have arguments int_handler: code.. k iret callproc patch_int, 7, int_handler is the 80x87 io mapped? or whatever the fpu exception is, if it ain't 7 yeah7 cat /proc/interrupts is the 80x87 io mapped? err, cat /proc/ioports ok I dunno what those ports do well i'll have to see how i'd implement something like you said with the FPU add some Forth words to use the fpu there are even standard word names to use hmmm tell me more about keeping 8 regs in the FPU while the others are in memory 07:40am hmm you might not need more than 8 for ANSI forth you only need 6, minimum well explain it a little bit also, Moore (forth's creator) has said you shouldn't use more than 4 stack elements on average, anyway (you should store stuff in regular memory if you need more) ok uhhh * ElGato/#tunes doesn't know the internals of forth expleain your idea ok if you type 2.0, it pushes 2.0 on the FPU stack (F0) i gotta go see you next week see ya heh -:- SignOff ElGato: #TUNES (:\) 07:50am -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (pyro has no reason) -:- ElGato [dave@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes crap! -:- SignOff ElGato: #TUNES (ElGato has no reason) 08:00am -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us306.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System || Geek Chicks || ruby || Operating Systems, The Internet OS Resource -:- smkl [sami@MCDXL.rdyn.saunalahti.fi] has joined #tunes -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250090.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (pyro has no reason) -:- Fare [rideau@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: TUNES | Geek Chicks | ruby | | network access w/ gawk 1 -:- s_r [sr@phila-dialup327.nni.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[MCDXL.rdyn.saunalahti.fi]) -:- kermit [kermit@rrosd45.impsat.net.ar] has joined #tunes hello all 10:30am lo -:- SignOff kermit: #TUNES (Ping timeout for kermit[rrosd45.impsat.net.ar]) 10:40am eihrul do you plan to make a new computer language too? maybe decades down the road right now the existing languages more or less work for me :) hmm you could write the kernel in asm no thank you working on the kernel now? nope, reading stuff on L4 10:50am abi: l4? s_r: i don't know want url? sure http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~mh1/l3/ abi: L4 is a microkernel OS at http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~mh1/l3/ eihrul: have you run L4? nope seems pretty nice though what kind of features does it have>? as few as possible... :) basically: nice ipc, user level paging, generic mechanism for cross-network message passing (clans and chiefs) 11:00am should i write my OS for intel or alpha? personal preference i don't have any access to alpha, but i'd probably do it if i did so if you got an alpha, go for it you can be the first on your block to write a 64 bit os :) -:- smkl [sami@MCCXVI.rdyn.saunalahti.fi] has joined #tunes 11:10am -:- Mr_Wrong [seanl@adsl-63-192-213-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Mr_Wrong: #TUNES (Read error to Mr_Wrong[adsl-63-192-213-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net]: Connection reset by peer) -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (...) -:- SignOff s_r: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- smkl [sami@MCCCXLVII.rdyn.saunalahti.fi] has joined #tunes http://www.tunes.org> || Geek Chicks || ruby || Operating Systems, The Internet OS Resource oops http://serv1.imm.dtu.dk/documents/users/aaa/hurtingtruths.html -:- mode/#Tunes [+o Fare] by ChanServ -:- Fare was kicked off #tunes by Fare (stupid flooder!) -:- Fare [rideau@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- NetSplit: heinlein.openprojects.net split from hogan.openprojects.net [12:48pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [heinlein.openprojects.net] 12:50pm ?? -:- Netjoined: heinlein.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by heinlein.openprojects.net 01:00pm -:- liar [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- stacho [stan2el-so@212.56.1.107] has joined #tunes -:- stacho [stan2el-so@212.56.1.107] has left #tunes [] -:- binEng [Anders@dialup210-1-53.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( ) -:- eStormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff eStormy: #TUNES (eStormy has no reason) -:- ArkA [user5886@bhd5-Arc2-s87.mtl.colba.net] has joined #Tunes hello que tal, ArkA nobody know seems how to get real speed connect with ISP in linux>? ask everythere var/mesages-BS 02:50pm -:- ArkA [user5886@bhd5-Arc2-s87.mtl.colba.net] has left #Tunes [] -:- GMOL [yadavm@elvis.scripps.edu] has joined #tunes Fare? i heard Fare was sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) or pronounced Fahree Well whoever is here I got to have lunch with Joseph Goguen...(CafeOBJ guy) quite a nice fellow and we had an interesting conversation.. With respect to things like theorm verification, what consequenes do you feel incompleteness has? -:- s_r [sr@phila-dialup655.nni.com] has joined #tunes 03:20pm -:- SignOff GMOL: #TUNES (Read error to GMOL[elvis.scripps.edu]: EOF from client) -:- Mr_Wrong [seanl@adsl-63-192-213-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes Hi folks 03:40pm -:- ruiner [nate@ppp276.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes hey hi, s_r yo ...use yo....abi doesn't respond to it heh heh heh what are you up to? listening to NIN, downward spiral, heresy =) heh heh...I'm listening to halo 13 the day the whole world went away 03:50pm do you like the new song that song you're listening to at first I didn't....but its growing on me I liked starfuckers inc. right away though I saw eyes wide shut last night....I was talked into going.....it sucked big time I'm gonna find out who was playing the piano for the musical score and hunt his ass down and kill him i didn't hear anything about that movie, but most people said Blair Witch Project was great that one looks dumb too.....imho i want to see it go see lake placid..... sure its juvenile, predictable and overall just stupid, but its entertaining heh i just saw American Pie any good? sort of funny how old are you? 17 get carded? lol you? 21 i'm going to listen to 16 volt and read some code have fun later 04:00pm -:- SignOff ruiner: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- eStormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #Tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (sleeping ...) -:- SignOff eStormy: #TUNES (eStormy has no reason) -:- SignOff s_r: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- c0ns [user4853@98CA0C10.ipt.aol.com] has joined #Tunes -:- c0ns [user4853@98CA0C10.ipt.aol.com] has left #Tunes [] -:- c0ns [user4853@98CA0C10.ipt.aol.com] has joined #Tunes -:- c0ns [user4853@98CA0C10.ipt.aol.com] has left #Tunes [] -:- c0ns [user4853@98CA0C10.ipt.aol.com] has joined #Tunes -:- c0ns [user4853@98CA0C10.ipt.aol.com] has left #Tunes [] anyone here? 06:50pm Yeah u know anything about pmode? Nothing at all ugh You mean protected mode? 07:00pm ya 07:10pm -:- yadavm [yadavm@elvis.scripps.edu] has joined #tunes Has anypone seen water? He is supposed to be in SD, he said he wanted to meet I gave him my #'s, but no response, tell him it is too bad I didn't get a chance to see him...I would've enjoyed some discussion.. -:- SignOff yadavm: #TUNES (Read error to yadavm[elvis.scripps.edu]: EOF from client) 07:30pm -:- ruiner [nate@ppp261.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes -:- strlen [alex@galaxy.strlen.net] has joined #Tunes -:- strlen [alex@galaxy.strlen.net] has left #Tunes [] ruiner: u here? yeah u know anything about pmode? no, you asked me a couple days ago sorry chier chief even crap it seems u can have a stack in a dpl3 segment when cpl is 0 do u see any protection problems that could be caused by allowing the stack to be dpl3 with cpl0? dude...way over my head....I'm not that advanced yet arent u making an os? no...not yet...maybe in like 5 years hmm I'm here to learn, and argue ideas yer 21, yer life is nearing an end :) 9 more years til I die well....9 is the most I can hope for i was so close to having a brix test now i gotta go thru the ~30 user functions and have it load ds with a dpl0 segment wanna do it for me? :) if you don't mind waiting a year or so u just gotta add a "push ds", a "mov some_reg,sel_kDS", a "mov ds,some_reg" at the top and a "pop ds" at the bottom -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) or I could just listen to some manson and let you do it i dont like doing minor tasks like that so it could take a year for me to do it :) 10:30pm and u would be the only one with brix source code :) hmmmm....I don't think so..... sorry.... I don't know much assembly yet... I can't even write a boot loader yet my goal is to squeeze my current boot loader and setup code into the bootloader my current setup code is 2734 bytes long so i need to do some optimizing :) maybe you can explain it to me... explain what? I was TOLD that nothing can boot NT except it's own boot loader, because of NTFS....but I can't figure out why that would be all OSes need their own bootloader but I was told that a boot manager couldn't boot NT.... ya it can like lilo or the os/2 boot manager the beos boot manager can and lilo can ok...so my friend is full of it and im sure system commander can I'm not too impressed with system commander....it copies stuff back and forth to the boot sector... the os/2 way is better....put all of it on its own partition the boot manager just sits in the first sector on a multi-partion drive and displays a list. it then loads the boot sector from whatever partion to 0:7c00h and jumps to it 10:40pm ack! hex! i think the brix way is even better: boot brix first and let the user boot other OSes from the brix ui :) do you know if amd gives away free documentation like intel does? amd has lots of pdf files i dont know if they send u free cds tho pdf...yuck intels info is also in pdf I don't have a printer i can abuse enough to print all that out anyhow why print it? and I can't stand reading stuff off the monitor....paper is still a better medium for that use acrobat reader ^^^^^^ thats why a real hacker doesnt care where his info is before entering his eyes as long as it reaches his eyes blah blah blah... I have a hard time learning in front of the computer..its foreign to me....feels like I should be playing diablo I'm a creature of habit.... i have a working computer and a game computer so i dont get confused I draw at my desk, I read in bed, and I sleep at school i read in my car heh heh heh put the book in the dash and it reflects off the windshield :) yowzah how much do you know about electronics? i have a BS in EE like if I gave you a box full of transistors and chips and stuff yowzah! 10:50pm have you thought of doing something like that mp3 car stereo? you could have brix running it... actually i planned to do that but i kept thinking of more shit i could have it do I wanna make something that plugs into my parallel port that I could wire my house up to first i was gonna get a little 6" color monitor and a keypad. but then i thought it would be kewl to do other stuff on so i was gonna install a 14" and run X and i was gonna install a network card and a 10base2 jack on the outside of my car so i could 'plug' it into my home network :) u need X10 explain.... X10 has a card u put in yer computer and u plug a cable from the card into the AC outlet actually...do you remember any of the books you had in school on EE? I'd be interested in checking them out u then plug X10 boxes into all yer ac outlets and plug yer appliances into the boxes bah! where's the fun in that? and u can run this program on yer pc and turn power on and off to all the devices u can also get sensors if it isn't homemade, its not worth doing u can see what doors are open, room temps build it yer self I wanna u can buy pci/isa card kits stick on yer own parts any links? build yer own boxes links? links are inside the frickin file you're a good resource for knowledge... links to places where I can start learning this stuff... since you ignored my books question what books question? actually...do you remember any of the books you had in school on EE? I'd be interested in checking them out hmm i cant remember any of there names but they are all sitting on my bookshelf behind me :) remind me tomorrow to find some with the kinda info u want basically just some beginner stuff I learned binary, hexadecimal and octal number systems and how to +-*/ in all of them and anding, oring, blah blah ofcourse u are so far behind in the ee field but beyond that...I'm clueless 11:00pm i had 6 years of EE since i was 16 22 when i got my EE :) see what i mean when i said yer life is nearing an end? u have wasted so much time :) i learned asm at 14 yeah well....at 14 I had just gotten a computer me too its not a matter of brains, I have that, I need somewhere I can learn...or a person I can ask this stuff and have it explained what kinda comp? i didnt get help from anyone 486 well my uncles are programmers and borrowed me some books there you go.... but they didnt help me I didn't get into programming until my junior year of high school....guess what language my first comp was a tandy 1000 I'm completely willing to do it on my own if I have the references to do it... 8088, 256k ram, no hdd, no modem, 5.25(360k) and 3.5(720k) floppy drive and t16 graphics (less then ega) when u got an under powered machine like that and its software sucks then it makes u wanna learn asm and write stuff that is kewl so i started brix it was also a machine that i could add onto so i built electronic crap that could hook to it how old are you out of curiosity? I know I've asked before.. 25 11:10pm where are you at? at? im in my chair uhhuh.....what country? corvo flores texas? an island near portugal or is that just the server you're running through? eh? seriously...if you're close I'd ask if I could borrow those books and accept the abuse you send instead, but if you're not anywhere near me I won't bother asking i am serious i am stationed here grrrr......dammit I wanna get at some books on electronics im an army ranger and my platoon is stationed here my friend's brother is a ranger.....he's being/was sent to kosovo www.amazon.com is a good starting point :) we are gonna attack france any titles you recommend that would take me from knowing nothing to being able to do something worthwhile good, I hate the french water and his navy buddies will bomb the hell outta them from subs and we will go in and clean up well u gotta remember that when i bought my books i also bought an instructor to help me amazon is not an option....that would cost money, and i'm in debt anything my local library would have? u might wanna get books that are designed for learning on yer own so you're saying you had help? ;-p the local library is a damn good place to start if I can get ahold of something that is pretty basic and gets me going, then I could take the advanced stuff without help i think when i was 12 i read all the computer/ee books at the library i knew howto build and program computers before i had one 11:20pm so.....any titles you reccomend? well, beggers cant be picky take what the library has k 11:30pm I wanna make something that will mow my lawn.....that'd kick butt mobile robots It's called a gardener. You can't buy them, but you can rent them. wrong: its better to make machines that do it yeah, mobile robots Why, liar? wrong: its the hacker spirit cuz paying for something you don't have to is wrong Better to make machines that do things that people can't, IMO Or that can do them more efficiently/cheaply/quickly * Mr_Wrong/#tunes discovers streaming MP3 maybe for the corporate world, but for nate's weekend world, I say make the computers do what I don't wanna 11:40pm I still say it'd be cheaper/easier to get a gardener. cheaper? no Then you're helping someone else make a living to boot. easier? probably $100 a month vs. how much would you be spending to build a robot? wrong: but building a machine makes u feel good 50 bucks wrong: paying some luser to mow yer lawn doesnt Hey, if you can build a robot for $50 that will mow your lawn, tell me how! a simple electric engine with some homemade electronics to triangulate position i could build a robot into my lawn mower for $100 Damn, I need to increase the buffer size in xmms actually, no size buffer would help with this particular outage. and wouldnt have to shell out another $100 every month after Send me plans, dude Not that I actually have a lawn mower. have you ever heard of the searl effect generator? If I were spending the time, I would eliminate the problem altogether and get rid of the lawn. but then I'd have no place for the dog to poop haha same here my dog is smart and has a special area of lawn to crap on hmm......some sort of beacon at every corner of the lawn, and at each corner of the house? i always tell ppl i dont like to walk over there I suppose a dog bathroom is a worthy use for a lawn mine is dumb, he goes where he feels like it though, I did get him to poop in the neighbor's yard for a month or so I could tell cuz I didn't step on any of his land mines The spectrum analyzer on xmms shows an excessive amount of bass in everythng that's being streamed to me I suppose that could have something to do with the fact that it's all techno why would u want mp3's streamed to u when i get mp3's i download like 10 at a time in the background, not one at a time same here.... streaming...that would be crappy actually either pissy quality, or it'd stop and restart the song a lot This way I don't have to store them locally Actually, I have plenty of bandwidth to stream at 128k the only streaming i do is the stream coming over my nfs connection to my server where the mp3's are kept :) An abundance of bandwidth obviates the necessity for lots of local storage. one to take the garbage from the garage to the curb would be easy Wouldn't it be better to design a mechanism to dispose of the garbage locally to eliminate the need to take the garbage to the curb? 11:50pm Perhaps a high-temperature incinerator with a chemical or laser oxidation system? Added benefit of producing ash with useful qualities. I'm open to suggestions....I don't have a multipurpose cold fusion reactor on my counter