IRC log started Tue Jun 29 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0629 -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from lewis.openprojects.net [12:01am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net lewis.openprojects.net -:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust243.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes -:- Fare [rideau@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Coding) -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear) -:- Fare [rideau@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- water [water@ppp-tnt-169.tscnet.net] has joined #TUNES -:- water [water@ppp-tnt-169.tscnet.net] has left #TUNES [] -:- Oddity [d96-abo@brown01.nada.kth.se] has joined #tunes Gakuk! 05:20am -:- HickServ [thrustit@209-68-229-46.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes gakuk fare! gakuk indeed how be you this morning (my time)? what's up? i think up is the opposite of down fine y tu? ok brb nevermind 08:10am -:- doog-E [doogie@ith2-275.twcny.rr.com] has joined #Tunes hello hi 08:30am what brings you here? i listed all the channels, but had no clue what this one would be for tunes? somebody said tunes was http://www.tunes.org, a free reflective computing system or for programming languages what the internet is to networks or like flypaper for hallucinogenic programmers or discombobulated been there that sums it up pretty well aah hum -:- beholder [beholder@ppp-027.m4-1.osh.ican.net] has joined #tunes Fare your sentence in your resumé says you read and write english without a problem yet i see a grammatical error :(! discombobulated? inded! -:- SignOff doog-E: #TUNES (Ping timeout for doog-E[ith2-275.twcny.rr.com]) uh well lemme quote it real quick Hey Fare can read and write english without problem, and talk it and understand it fairly enough (though not enough to catch jokes as fast as they are said). it should be "...without a problem, speak it, and ..." "... and talk it... " should say "and also speak and understand it well enough" "understand it fairly well..." i just thought that that particular sentence should be correct ;) HS: oops Fare: no problem 08:40am * beholder/#tunes has read many of Fare's articles and most of them have very good english grammer. Technical english is the worst, so that's an achievement for anyone who's primary language is not english :) agree'd er agreed :))) beh: thanks HS: will be fixed at next commit i only write english at the 9th grade level * Fare/#Tunes now uses for ~/etc and ~/fare, too Kinda makes me feel uneducated in that, I would not be able to read any technical french, none the less write it :) .... and sadly I learned French in school! ;) Fare: I bet now your english is better than mine i wish i could speak spanish as well as fare can speak english I wish I could speak english as well as I pretend I do... heh fare: Did you get around to that mail I sent you yet? which mail? "Ronald Reagan is elected, but i swear it's not my fault." hahaha it's only the stupidity of the american people fare "Ronald Reagan will make this country what it once was... a desolated wasteland." fare: I sent you a personal mail about your updated definition of micokernels? "...im no more the youngest children in my family." ;( -:- FareWell [fare@d197.paris-131.cybercable.fr] has joined #Tunes Hum. Connection lost. wb fair Fare Where were we? -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) well, I received you mail. Why not post it to the list instead? (with another subject:) haven't we already discussed the topic on IRC? fare: Actually I forgot to hit the reply-all button.... I wish I had a better excuse ;) 08:50am well, please reply again, so we can have a public explanation :) fare: NP :) I can bounce the message back if you have no archive i was looking at that apple ][ community site, what was it all about? oh, and mind the 80-column limit fare: Actually I just archived my mail, so that would be great :) HS: see my pointers page hum. Be back in a few minutes. fare: It must be my mail program, for some reason, even when I have it set to 64 columns it still goes past... damn Netscape -:- SignOff FareWell: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear) 09:00am a few minutes :( -:- binEng [Anders@dialup95-2-53.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes 09:10am buenos dias gakuk no hablo Fare ;) hi isn't water a big meany? a what? a mean person aha "good!" "he's left!" well indeed I only confirmed you left! i know * beholder/#tunes thinks hick antagonizes sometimes... it's become common practice for me to read the logs :) beholder: indeed As for water's character, I can't comment. This is, after all, logged ;) I'd defend him. I know deep down he's a good guy. yeah hmmm how peculiar 09:20am i've lloked through cvs but i haven't found any working source code 09:30am -:- Fare [fare@d197.paris-131.cybercable.fr] has joined #Tunes wb fare -:- Fare is now known as FareWell im reading your paper on metaprogramming and it's very interesting -:- FareWell is now known as Fare hum 09:40am -:- billyboof [hatefull@nrwc-sh7-port58.snet.net] has joined #tunes B00F hello hoy, billyboof !!! ummm... i think it's bad enough that alonzo B00F's me every time i get in... i don't need you doing it hick :))) damn, efnet is dead im turning into him #os on efnet is dead no, don't do it man it used to be a really nice place no...#os,#asm, and #newos is dead now it's full of unintelligent bots yeah... i wish reentry still hung out as much as he did when i first got there... he's too busy working out #bodybuilding hehehe i don't like the bots either, but people on efnet are gay, ie they like trying to take over channels... the politics of efnet are gay it's like that on most networks yep... i wish it had a chanserv... you either have the anarchy of efnet or the reletive security of chanserv but the IRCops are usually the fascist defacto of the network cause if it did i would kick/ban all those bots... yep... i got klined from an efnet server once... for 1440 hrs.. "botnets suck" was the reason... * billyboof/#tunes shrugs hehehe -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[d197.paris-131.cybercable.fr]) 09:50am i have to go... later -:- SignOff billyboof: #TUNES (hatefull@antisocial.com) -:- binEng_ [Anders@dialup93-2-24.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes anyone know a good lisp tutorial? i can't do much on tunes without knowing lisp it seems why lisp? -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup95-2-53.swipnet.se]) -:- binEng_ is now known as binEng it's a very expressive language * binEng/#tunes is learning Python and thinks it's great good for you 10:00am :) My point was that maybe Python could be an alternative? what is python like? www.python.org no thanks :) hick: It's a scripting lang i know Interpreted, OO, easy to learn... Feature packed -:- binEng_ [Anders@dialup93-1-17.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes :\ yah -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup93-2-24.swipnet.se]) -:- binEng_ is now known as binEng 10:10am -:- SignOff beholder: #TUNES (Ping timeout for beholder[ppp-027.m4-1.osh.ican.net]) -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( ) -:- Fare [rideau@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes wb Fare i'm learning Scheme and it already 0wnz me! HS: yeah! HS: what book are you using? lisp is far more supperior than c -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust5.tnt26.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes HS: who's talking about bad english? An indtroduction to Scheme and it's Implementation Hey hey, lar1 HS: dunno this one. Who's the author? i found it on the review page -:- beholder [beholder@ppp-067.m4-1.osh.ican.net] has joined #tunes i don't know the author btw superior but does bespin have scheme compiler? compiler? yes hum. It has the guile interpreter, but I know not of an installed compiler 11:10am a guile interpreter? -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[1Cust5.tnt26.sfo3.da.uu.net]) oh, THE guile interpreter Fare: Are you using Deb right now? it has a compiler: rsc ok i wanna write "Hello World!" now i've never actually had it be my first program for a language (display "Hello World!\n") i know display was the first procedure i learned or maybe (begin (write '|Hello World!|) (newline)) i think the first one is fine do i have to put it in a file then "rsc file"? or (for-each display '(#\H#\e#\l#\l#\o#\space#\W#\o#\r#\l#\d#\!#\newline)) how do i work rsc? dunno. Read the docs on www.rscheme.org? or just use guile guile is simpler to use what is guile like? guile is an interactive interpreter, and a script is just #!/usr/bin/guile -s what do i do after i've started it? 11:20am oh, you can also #!/usr/bin/rs how do i use guile? (display 'foo) (exit) rs is the interactive shell for RScheme (rsc is the compiler) read the docs! yay! my first lisp program!!! HS: welcome to a new world of hackerdom! :) LISP has always been THE hacker language by definition isn't there any working code in cvs? HS: besides the administrative "code", nope there is a library of scheme stuff in HLL/scm/ nothing at all? including an interpreter for the lambda-calculus boy oh boy i thought tunes was rather far along the first thing we need is complete the assembler so as to reimplement retro with it for that, we basically need a pattern matcher we don't need something very efficient, to begin with we can even be darned slow what do you mean pattern matcher? something that takes a set of patterns as input, and an expression, and matches the expression with the patterns 11:30am be more specific as to how it would be used -:- beholder [beholder@ppp-067.m4-1.osh.ican.net] has left #tunes [] in that case, we'll match something like (mov %eax 1) and produce an ((op413 #xB opsize reg) (imm)) that is, in this case 0xB8 0x1 0x0 0x0 0x0 brb although 0xC7 0b11000000 0x1 might be better? -:- Zoot [zoot@olibrius.univ-paris1.fr] has joined #tunes 11:40am tiens, un olibrius? on se connait? -:- Jefftheca [user8314@dialin53b-06.ppp.uci.edu] has joined #Tunes -:- Jefftheca [user8314@dialin53b-06.ppp.uci.edu] has left #Tunes [] ok i was on the phone pardon, j'étais ailleurs :) non, c'est la première fois que je viens ici. J'ai vu l'appel pressant au remplissage de ce channel sur le site ah! HS: wierd. There's a pattern in double in insn-db.hlm (MOV (MEMDIR) (ACCUMS)) why do we have to create an assembler? 11:50am HS: 1) so that we do not depend on an external tool HS: 2) so as to experiment with pattern matching no is this a interpreter or a compiler? HS: what "this" ? the assembler i think the assembler is still assembler I haven't input enough data to "interpret" the code btw what is .hlm? but I imagine we could have an assembly "interpreter", useful for various purposes ought to have been the extension for the HLL- hmmm yet we don't have an HLL yet an intermediate language between the LLL and the full HLL, with semantic and syntactic restrictions consider it as scheme, for the time being okey dokey okey how shall i navigate this code? where to start? I guess you can have a look in HLL/scm/ no i mean for the assembler it has a Rules.make to create an executable scheme program by generating a site-dependent wrapper over scheme files for the assembler, I think you should read nasm and/or bfd sources ok, let's say, nasm sources * Zoot/#tunes va se restaurer. ciao -:- SignOff Zoot: #TUNES (connection reset by peer) fare what i mean is that it's kinda hard for my to understand code that i didn't write and is poorly commented :\ 12:00pm Sure well, what part of the code would you like to learn first. The make mechanism? sure ok, so the goal is to use only standard basic scheme features, plus a minimal set of extensions this means that we will only (load "files") and also (read) from files -:- eStormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #Tunes the extensions we use, and the way we adapt to varying scheme implementations, is handled in HLL/scm/init/ the main feature we depend on is LISP-style macros, as opposed to (define-syntax) see foo.scm for a list of non-standard features we depend on hmmm i need to learn more lisp bbl 12:10pm * Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 24 hrs 19 min 14 secs -:- binEng [Anders@dialup95-1-53.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes * Tril/#TUNES is away: (afk) [BX-MsgLog Off] -:- binEng_ [Anders@dialup93-2-28.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes bE! lucky you who "you"? fare: i don't know -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup95-1-53.swipnet.se]) be hi que tal, binEng_ -:- binEng_ is now known as binEng he keeps getting fux0red :) hola abo hola abi abi: tu hablas espanol? bugger all, i dunno, hickserv :p abi: tu eres stupido can read and write english without problem, and talk it and understand it fairly enough (though not enough to catch jokes as fast as they are said). uh damnit i accidentally pasted sorry -:- binEng_ [Anders@dialup44-1-7.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup93-2-28.swipnet.se]) -:- binEng_ is now known as binEng * binEng/#tunes sighs openprojects must not like you * binEng/#tunes doesn't like his ISP 12:50pm uh this tutorial doesn't tell how to declare pairs HickServ: Python? :) no lisp ...guessed so yo hablando a senor rideau HS: declare pairs? like (cons a b) or '(a . b) ? for liss lists lithpth :( * Fare/#Tunes doesn't like his LISP that isn't funny :( i used to have trouble with my s's S's i uthed to have what you could call a lithp oh i see how (define foo (quote 1, 2, 3)) (quote (1 2 3)) you mean or '(1 2 3) yes i i don't know why i used ',' if LISP had only invented quote, it would already have been a breakthrough in CS why? 01:00pm I guess I'll have to explain it in my next paper... ok then basically, quote makes your language universal in a much more interesting way than what is usually meant by "Turing-equivalence" explain i don't like it how everyhting in scheme is a pointer though es muy malo HS: not everything is a pointer; you have immediate objects, too 01:10pm i mean memory locations that means one extra location per variable no, again, there are fixnums uh on members.html it doesn't have my software skills i put them down 01:20pm (cdr list) would be a specific postion in the list list right? there is an infozip game to learn the bases of Scheme use it! ahem fine im never gonna get anything out of you where do I find the apache error log? depends. See what your httpd.conf says On bespin oh * Fare/#Tunes hates httpd.conf. Why can't I #include or such from it??? /var/log/apache/ Form 1: Removes the characters from pos to the end of the target string and returns a reference to the resulting string. sorry, wrong chan thnx 01:30pm * Fare/#Tunes wonders what browser to use: netscape is unstable; mmm cannot display /.; lynx doesn't optimize my screen real-estate; w3 stops my emacs editing; mmm? and closure isn't multiprogrammed mmm is the caml-light browser not actively maintained (with caml-light applets) Could someone help me? I can't run an own CGI thingie from Bespin what are you trying to do? cgi stuff must be put in httpd.conf 01:40pm I just try to run a hello world script from tpp um, could you help me checking that? plz? I dunno where the problem is... I get a 500 Internal error my link to bespin is real lagged tonight my too and I'm not familiar with it either im getting wee bit tired of learning scheme today perhaps more later * binEng/#tunes needs help bE: does it run at your home? it runs on the shell maybe you should debug at home, and only then try to install on bespin... it's just a few lines Do you have apache installed at home? um yes, but... but? ...but tcp/ip doesn't work at my linux machine uh??? telnet 127.0.0.1 always work or you're really screwing things on purpose I have no idea what this problem is, soft- or hardware... I can't ping myself, even on localhost 01:50pm but that isn't the only prob... I know as good as nothing about running linux i wonder where lisp programmers became obsessed with foo-bar * binEng/#tunes foobars HickServ * HickServ/#tunes gives binEnd the elephant manuever binEng hm yes you will never know crap nobody that wants to help me?? fare: what does lambda do? where do I find httpd.conf? i don't know HELLO anybody?? * binEng/#tunes is getting desperate Fare? i guess Fare is sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) that may disconnect him anytime 02:00pm * Fare/#Tunes is back Fare: I do need help. At least tell me what to do! what are you trying to do, exactly? I'm trying to run my cgi script what's the url? -:- SignOff HickServ: #TUNES (Leaving) http://tpp.dhs.org/cgi-bin/hello.py * binEng/#tunes put his faith in Fare hum That's what I said too 02:10pm can you try at home? you need help from so more xpriencd than I It doesn't seem to be the script itself that's at fault... but some server config it runs well when not "cgi'd" I'm sorry. Maybe tril konws Do you know when he comes? nope wazs there today already how do I dir with full listing? ls -l ? ya look apache.org for the error " Premature end of scrip t headers" 02:20pm -:- Lennon [user2924@ppp254140.hkabc.net] has joined #Tunes hello Today , I am first user for linux Who know..... How to decompression for *.tar in afterstep........? maybe /join #linpeople -:- Fare has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Reflective Computing System do U know ??? in an xterm, use tar xvf toto.tar man tar