IRC log started Tue Apr 27 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0427 -:- pecadora [aRFaRF@155.210.51.180] has joined #Tunes ups -:- pecadora [aRFaRF@155.210.51.180] has left #Tunes [] 12:30am -:- ^Sweetdevil^ [HaveAnothe@juror10.lis.net.au] has joined #tunes <^Sweetdevil^> i come to join ya all <^Sweetdevil^> so like somone say sumfin * ^Sweetdevil^/#tunes pouts -:- Mimosin [a@origin.eps.ua.es] has joined #Tunes * ^Sweetdevil^/#tunes runs around like a rabbit on fire hola? hello? * ^Sweetdevil^/#tunes waves talking about..? <^Sweetdevil^> nothings going on <^Sweetdevil^> im bored english channel? <^Sweetdevil^> hehe <_QZ> hmm <^Sweetdevil^> i dunno <^Sweetdevil^> i never been here before me too <^Sweetdevil^> funky -:- Mimosin [a@origin.eps.ua.es] has left #Tunes [] <_QZ> this channel is for the tunes OS project <^Sweetdevil^> the wa <^Sweetdevil^> ?? <_QZ> operating system <_QZ> read the topic 01:00am <^Sweetdevil^> ic * ^Sweetdevil^/#tunes sits n watches <_QZ> cya -:- SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- ^Sweetdevil^ [HaveAnothe@juror10.lis.net.au] has left #tunes [] 01:10am -:- irc [starmaker@semestr-1.t4.ds.pwr.wroc.pl] has joined #tunes -:- irc is now known as starMaker hi que tal, starMaker any1 here ? where r u from, abi ? wish i knew, starmaker where do u live ? tell me sth about tunes project, please 04:40am :-O -:- SignOff starMaker: #TUNES (Leaving) 04:50am -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-127-206.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes -:- tcn [tcn@bespin.cx] has joined #tunes hey, anyone here? om abi: seen Fare Fare was last seen saying something on IRC Sun Apr 25 18:07:23 1999 tcn abi: seen tcn tcn was last seen saying something on IRC Tue Apr 27 10:16:48 1999 abi, tcn? you are gone. or doing his project for his own education. abi, _qz? well, _qz is the creator of BRiX, and webmaster of http://www.qzx.com abi, tunes? somebody said tunes was in my head or tunes is a useful nevertheless expedient system. or at http://tunes.org/ or a free reflective computing system or to programming languages what the internet is to computer networks. abi, abi? i am the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' personal little whore or an infoslut or gaklosmontic or flurivostuginuous or xyvarestoplik -:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason) 10:20am om+ om? abi, om? no idea, alonzotg 10:30am -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us832.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us832.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- Iepos [root@d15.t1-8.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES -:- SignOff Iepos: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.cx] by king.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.cx]) -:- Connection closed from king.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server king.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES -:- Your host is king.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 -:- This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST -:- king.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(5)] 2% -:- [global users on irc(115)] 39% -:- [invisible users on irc(181)] 61% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 5% -:- [total users on irc(296)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(35)] (avg. 8 users per server) -:- [total channels created(76)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !king.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 11 (10 clients) -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@206.63.100.13 " -:- TUNES [tunes@206.63.100.13] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#Tunes:6)] [ TUNES ] [ Fare ] [ _QZ ] [@Tril ] [ abi ] [ ^lilo ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.273 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- GMOL [gmol@24.66.11.51] has joined #tunes hi que tal, Fare me pregunto como estais? nadie hoy en el channel? Fare, are you working with tcn on a scheme interp.? I should be, but I ha ven't done much I've laid down all the theoretical work about it, but not begun the actual coding :( :( :( why are you working on a bootstrapped interp? What's the point? GMOL: the point is that we should be eating our own dog food asap 04:20pm and the way to do it is having a reflective interpreter why not write one under an existing OS? you have everything you could possibly need...instead of struggling with a new one? GMOL: the reflective interpreter could ideally run under linux unmodified (perhaps iwith degraded performance once we begin optimizing the compiler) you intend on having the OS impliment UNIX calls so it can run unmodified? nope, rather having an abstraction layer and not relying on unix calls for normal stuff (but allowing use of them for "external" calls) i.e. access a partition/file directly for the persistent memory How are you going to have things like multithreading, mem alloc file stuff without talking to the OS? 04:30pm -:- Closing Link: TUNES[206.63.100.13] by king.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[206.63.100.13]) -:- Connection closed from king.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server king.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES -:- Your host is king.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 -:- This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST -:- king.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(5)] 2% -:- [global users on irc(116)] 39% -:- [invisible users on irc(182)] 61% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 5% -:- [total users on irc(298)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(35)] (avg. 8 users per server) -:- [total channels created(76)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !king.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 11 (10 clients) -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.cx " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.cx] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#Tunes:7)] [ TUNES ] [@Tril ] [ abi ] [ ^lilo ] [ _QZ ] [ Fare ] [ GMOL ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.513 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES WHile I can run scheme on linux and be a much happier man... Why do you want the device drivers writtne in a specific way when you're making this thing OS independant? GMOL: because we need more than just scheme we need a reflective scheme a scheme where we may access the internals where we can do orthogonal persistence, and not just of data (as with RScheme), but of code, too having the device drivers now is a happy side effect GMOL: the glossary has an entry for that GMOL: lemme tell you a story. when my mom first used a computer, she spent the whole night entering books in her library's database. Then she shutdown the computer and went to sleep next day, she turn her computer back up, and the data wasn't just there!!! well, orth. persist. means it would have been here. without having her caring specifically about it -- orthogonally 04:40pm yes I remember now. My point is if your creating a meta system, with theorem provers etc. do you feel you can do this under Scheme, and if so why not design the OS with the interpeter? I can't do that under plain scheme I need a modified, relective, scheme and I pick scheme as a core for the language because it's powerful and simple and stanardized that's what I am saying with your scheme, instead of writing the drivers by hand (and the entire OS) don't understand your latter question 04:50pm You said you can't do what I said under scheme (that is deisgn the OS under normal scheme) then you said you need a modified scheme (presumably the one you proposed) so why don't you use the scheme that you have proposed to design the OS? GMOL: sure, that's what we're going to do however, some real low-level things are to be done in asm, anyway 05:00pm (of course, if the scheme has inline asm, it would be better done this way) I don't feel this approach will alleviate the problems of current software design that are spouted over the TUNES page... which approach? what do you propose? what issue do you feel isn't addressed? 1. First of all your designing a low level API in the traditional manner...all in asm and a bunch of code...the code that Tom is writing won't port to another machine (i.e. the coder's brain will have to do the thinking)... when it should be the computer How will we encode "meaning" in scheme? firstly, as scheme functions I.e. our api's somehow have some meaning attacthed to them so the computer can operatoe on them the asm, should be limited to where it's strctly necessary It certainly isn'tlimited in the last version I saw...your doing keyboard input and parsing in asm maybe we should be using some bigger LISP than scheme, like islisp or such gmol: thats because tcn has been doing everything And lemme see how you'd encode meaning via scheme functions? k 05:10pm parsing should be done in scheme as soon as its bootstrapped anything else before I go? -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear) hoopefully you'll get the logs you didn't answer the question of how scheme func will encode meaning -:- SignOff GMOL: #TUNES (Leaving) 05:20pm -:- Groucho [Kaan@virtual9.s.bawue.de] has joined #Tunes -:- Groucho [Kaan@virtual9.s.bawue.de] has left #Tunes [] -:- Espada [espada@195.53.200.44] has joined #Tunes -:- Espada [espada@195.53.200.44] has left #Tunes [] -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us242.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- krz [krz@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #tunes -:- krz [krz@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0428 IRC log ended Wed Apr 28 00:00:00 1999