IRC log started Thu Apr 15 00:00:00 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0415
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<Fare> abi: Gakuk!
<abi> it has been said that gakuk is a word fare made up for greeting people, that's what he told me
05:30am
<Fare> hum.
07:30am
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<tmf> hi
11:20am
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<tcn> hey
<tcn> <Chikano> Hijos dwe puta
<tcn> he called you sons of bitches :)
!NickServ:*! lilo used GETPASS on chuck
01:20pm
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* _QZ/#tunes is BACK [away time = 0h:45m:33s]
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<_QZ> hello
<tcn> hey
<tcn> how come you all have a 'v' in front of your nick?
<_QZ> tril is playing the auto voice game
<tcn> what's that?
<_QZ> he is giving everyone +v onjoin
<_QZ> +v is what u need to talk if the channel is moderated
<_QZ> ofcourse its not
<_QZ> so, anything new with retro?
<tcn> nah, I've been working on other stuff the past few days
<tcn> how 'bout brix?
<_QZ> well i ran into a major snag and have spent the past week thinking about it
05:50pm
<_QZ> but i solved it today
<_QZ> it should take a day to redo all the neccesary changes in the kernel
<tcn> I think I caught the sleeping sickness
<tcn> fuckin tired..
<_QZ> haha
<tcn> I heard it's actual a bug going around, like the flu.. but all you do is get tired
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> u need to go workout and eat good foods
<tcn> hey speaking of diseases, you hear about that lady who sat on a needle in a theater, and there was a note saying "you have been infected with the AIDS virus"... and they had it tested, and it was +
<_QZ> really?
<tcn> yeah, then the next week a guy in Atlanta reached into a payphone coin return.. same thing. And it happened in other cities all over the country. All +.
<_QZ> like a sewing needle or a seringe?
06:00pm
<tcn> Just a sewing needle, I think
<_QZ> scary
<tcn> hey, I heard some guy went on a rampage in SLC today
<_QZ> oh ya :)
<tcn> yer still here though
<_QZ> he went to the library this morning and got in an argument with some
<tcn> he got wasted eh?
<_QZ> he went home and came back later with a gun 
<_QZ> he was 70 years old!!!!!
<tcn> damn
<_QZ> they said he was on medication for some physco problem but had forgoten to take it for like a week
<_QZ> i dont know if he got shot but he was alive for questioning 
<tcn> oh yeah, that AIDS thing was BS.. but now some psycho will prolly do it for real.
<tcn> it was at the mormon library?
<_QZ> uhh dunno, it was called family something library
<tcn> hey do you know if Mormon missionaries are called "witnesses"?
<_QZ> uhh, im not mormon
<_QZ> just cuz i live in utah dont make me an expert on mormons
<tcn> that's what I figured
<tcn> I think there's a few at school
<tcn> anyways we had these missionaries coming around, one week they were Mormons, the next week they were Witnesses
<_QZ> ask them if they like being mormon salesmen :)
<_QZ> but when saying mormon slip and say moron and then quickly correct yerself
<tcn> Maybe they have a "missionary temp agency" or something now
<tcn> haha
<_QZ> i do that all the time
<_QZ> when they convert ppl the church gets 10% of yer income as tithing
<_QZ> so they are salesmen to make money for the church
06:10pm
<_QZ> then they build these stupid temples that only 'special' morons can go into. even tho u pay tithing u cant :)
<tcn> There used to be this old guy down the road who would take out his 12-gauge and make them say the pledge of allegiance to his flag
<_QZ> make who?
<tcn> morons, I thought
<tcn> or jehovah's witnesses?
<tcn> whichever church doesn't believe in America :)
<_QZ> so by saying 'there used to be' u mean that a moron didnt pledge his flag so they hauled his ass off afer a moron got shot? :)
<tcn> for all I know he still lives there. He was old though, prolly died.
<_QZ> i like talking to missionaries
<_QZ> they stopped visiting for some reason tho :)
<tcn> I guess you gotta give 'em the cold shoulder or they'll come back.
<_QZ> no no no
<_QZ> u gotta play with em
<tcn> haha
<_QZ> ask em questions, TONS of questions
<_QZ> hard shit that they gotta think about
<tcn> they have a habit of ringing the doorbell just as I'm about to leave
<_QZ> god can do anything right?
<Fare> gakuk!
<_QZ> he can create anything?
<_QZ> he can lift any object?
<tcn> So what makes your church better than mine?
<_QZ> so can he create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?
<tcn> hey fare
<Fare> lo tcn!
<_QZ> loopholes like that make the missionaries confused
<tcn> If killing is a sin and banging another guy is a sin, is it a sin to kill a fag?
<_QZ> hahah
<_QZ> morons are against fags
<tcn> that's the kinda shit we talk about in English class.. haha
<_QZ> i will have to ask that to the missionaries
<Fare> and is killing time a crime?
<tcn> That's a question for the real wackos
<_QZ> ok i just emailed a couple missionaries
<tcn> hey fare, you think I should use all null-terminated strings, no counted strings?
<_QZ> well ex-missionaries
<tcn> heh
<tcn> why'd they quit?
<_QZ> they are only a missionary for 2 years
<Fare> tcn: you should abstract yourself from string representation :)
<_QZ> i cant remember what they are called after that
<_QZ> some gay name
<Fare> tcn: if strings are to be GC'ed, then they should be heap-allocated.
06:20pm
<_QZ> no they should be objects
<_QZ> then the object manager can GC them
<Fare> sure. Heap allocated as any other object.
<tcn> they're heap allocated
<_QZ> if they are objects u dont need to know what kinda string it is
<Fare> QZ: can you cease repeating me with different words?
<_QZ> u can have both kinds and yer code doesnt need to know howto handle either
<_QZ> :)
-:- Fare has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org/> 
<tcn> My forth compiler *would* be working now, if everything used null-terminated.
<_QZ> why doesnt everything use null termination?
<Fare> tcn: you can do like CMUCL have have strings *both* counted and null-terminated :)
<tcn> oh ok
<Fare> QZ: because the programmers are terminally nulls?
<_QZ> Fare: do i need lisp to compile cmucl?
<Fare> QZ: you need _cmucl_ to compile cmucl
<tcn> wtf?
<_QZ> ah crap
<_QZ> so i was suppose to get the friggin binary?
<Fare> and if you're doing a deep change, you even need major hacking.
<_QZ> that blows
<tcn> Get GCL :)
<Fare> indeed it does.
<_QZ> which is better: cmucl or gcl?
<Fare> cmucl
<_QZ> tcn :)
<tcn> ocaml and rscheme were easy to set up
<Fare> gcl is unmaintained for years, and was never very efficient
<tcn> haha
<Fare> cmucl once was faster than gcc on sparc.
<_QZ> Fare: do u have pliant?
<Fare> and is actively maintained on x86.
<Fare> QZ: I do
<tcn> hey how come GNU stands for "GNU's Not Unix" when it IS unix?
<_QZ> have u gotten it to work?
<_QZ> tcn: unix is an att product
<Fare> tcn: how come EINE stands for EINE Is Not Emacs, when it IS emacs?
<Fare> tcn: Unix(tm) is a property of who knows anymore.
<_QZ> doesnt at&t still own it?
<Fare> no more.
<_QZ> really?
<Fare> They sold it to a group, then perhaps to SCO.
<_QZ> since when
<_QZ> hmm
<Fare> Novell once did hold the trademark
<Fare> (and the rights to the AT&T code)
<tcn> Microsoft prolly has it now
<Fare> what doesn't M$ have today?
<tcn> I looked up the M$ records on the SEC one time, and they were buying a company every week for a few billion $
<Fare> did I tell you MS Research will be hiring me?
<_QZ> heh, M$ placed a bid on the linux.com name :)
<_QZ> Fare: yer kidding right?
<Fare> QZ: left.
06:30pm
<Fare> well, the day they gimme the opportunity to do free software of my choice, I sign up.
<_QZ> free software or open source?
<_QZ> ugh
<_QZ> there is no glibc5 binary of cmucl
<_QZ> er libc5
<Fare> QZ: free software == open source, just in case you were in Mars last year.
<_QZ> no free software means u dont pay for it
<Fare> no, that's freeware.
<_QZ> no cuz u can charge for open source programs
<_QZ> is redhat 6 out yet?
<tcn> who cares
<tcn> redhat makes linux look bad
<_QZ> redhat is better than debian
<tcn> no its slower
<tcn> i ain't got no celeron-400
<_QZ> slower?
<Fare> both redhat and debian are good
<tcn> look at the /etc/rc files
<Fare> they are both all free software.
<Fare> debian puts also lotsa crap at startup.
<tcn> redhat starts a /bin/bash for every program started at startup
06:40pm
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<tcn> well *nix sucks anyway you slice it, that's why we're writing OS's
<_QZ> yup
<tcn> debian starts up pretty quick
<tcn> as fast as win95
<tcn> if a program uses 1 routine in a shared library, does Linux load the whole library into RAM?
<_QZ> hmm why the hell does netscape redraw the contents of the page when u scroll?
<tcn> cuz they got a buncha retards working there
<_QZ> if aprogram uses one function in a module does retro load the entire module into ram?
<Fare> as "fast" as win95!
* Fare/#Tunes hacked his redhat to startup mucho faster
<_QZ> win95 is slow
<_QZ> my redhat starts up snappy fast
<_QZ> so does win98, but NOT win95
<tcn> Fare: I don't care if it gets into X with the fs readonly.. I don't like X
* Fare/#Tunes spawns a login on tty12 as fast as possible
* Fare/#Tunes mke2fs a partition for /tmp and similar things asap, too, so as to be able to run X.
<tcn> when I saw win98 it took several minutes to start, on a new machine
<_QZ> win98 on my celeron463 starts up fast
<Fare> tcn: I don't like X, either. But it's the only usable way I know to view dvi and postscript files.
<tcn> yeah
<_QZ> and that is even counting the bios shit
<Fare> plus, it gets me 4 simultaneous xterms instead of just one terminal at a time.
<tcn> how come academics always have to publish in PS or DVI though?
<_QZ> te asus p2bd has a fast friggin bios
<Fare> tcn: what else do you propose? Word????
<tcn> ascii, html.. they need something for formulas though, I know..
06:50pm
<tcn> HTML w/ images for formulas is still smaller & faster than PS, though
<_QZ> tcn: u didnt answer my question?
<tcn> _QZ: u didn't ask
<_QZ> if aprogram uses one function in a module does retro load the entire module into ram?
<tcn> oh
<_QZ> or u just ignoring that :)
<Fare> tcn: it's still bigger than gzipped PS
<tcn> right now it loads all the modules whether or not they're used :)
<_QZ> what about later
<Fare> plus, traditionnally, academics need to publish _printed_ material
<tcn> Fare: does anyone read it? :)
<Fare> it will take a few years (and a usable free document format) to have them move from LaTeX
<Fare> tcn: other academics do.
<Fare> tcn: and you should read them, too, if you want to get insight on what you're doing.
<tcn> qz: A "module" will be a group of objects that are too small to justify loading them separately. But a "module" is a lot smaller than a typical library in *nix
<_QZ> ok
<_QZ> just had to make sure u werent against how brix does things :)
<Fare> gotta go sleep. Bye!
<tcn> 'night.
<_QZ> cya
<Fare> tcn: don't forget to commit!
-:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Back to the Tunes OS project -- /whowas Fare)
<tcn> haha
<tcn> I didn't do anything
<_QZ> heh
<_QZ> commit it damnit :)
<tcn> So does Linux load the whole damn library?
<_QZ> yes
<tcn> that's what I thought
<tcn> oh yeah, I finally figured out why Linux was slower than FBSD.. it was on a slower hard drive
07:00pm
<tcn> haha
<_QZ> are yer modules just collections of random functions or must all the functions be object methods?
<_QZ> heh
<tcn> they shouldn't have to be part of the same object
<tcn> we'll see
<_QZ> what
<_QZ> when i call a method inside a module i have to give it an object to work on with the call
<_QZ> if i call method 'a' of an object the kernel will know that method 'a' is inside the module belonging to that object type
<tcn> I'm shying away from classes
<_QZ> why
<tcn> it seems like an unnecessary layer of complexity. Besides, you ever looked at old math texts from the early 1900's? Classes are a bit dated :)
<_QZ> test of time
<tcn> I'm not the first to not use classes.. I found out it's called a "prototype" object system
<_QZ> huh
<tcn> what good are classes?
<_QZ> they define an object
<tcn> why can't an object define itself?
<_QZ> say u have a null terminate string class and a set of methods for it
<_QZ> and u also have a counted string class
<_QZ> since the methods for each class are gonna be the same, just different code, yer app can use either type of string
07:10pm
<_QZ> i could pass yer app either type of string and it could handle it
<tcn> What if all my "counted string" objects are cloned from a prototype "counted string" object
<tcn> the "methods" are objects themselves, and all the different "counted string" objects share the same methods
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-:- mode/#Tunes [+v _QZ] by Tril
<_QZ> piss
<tcn> <tcn> What if all my "counted string" objects are cloned from a prototype
<tcn>           "counted string" object
<tcn> <tcn> the "methods" are objects themselves, and all the different "counted
<tcn>           string" objects share the same methods
<_QZ> ya
<_QZ> did u have a problem with that?
<tcn> didn't try it yet
<_QZ> i have subclassing in brix but u can add methods to modules
<tcn> I thought about how it could waste space, when you have a bunch of objects.. so I could just have a flag saying "this object is a clone of xxx"
<_QZ> er i dont have
07:20pm
<_QZ> huh?
<tcn> To save space
<_QZ> u mean a link?
<tcn> well yeah, a flag and a link
<_QZ> u dont need links in an object system
<_QZ> anything that wants to use that object just references it
<tcn> same thing
<_QZ> cloning is to make another object that u want to change
<tcn> I thought a clone was an exact copy not a changed coyp
<_QZ> u can have the system clone all objects before making changes to them and save each clone in a list, undo list
<_QZ> version control
<_QZ> well it is an exact when u clone it
<_QZ> exact copy
<_QZ> then u change it :)
<_QZ> if i take a baseball bat to the face of a cloned human will the orignal human also have a smashed in face?
<tcn> no but everything else about them will be the same :)
<_QZ> what if i cut off the clones dick?
<_QZ> add breast implants
<_QZ> :)
<tcn> call it Marilyn Manson
<_QZ> hahah
<_QZ> u see a clone can change
<tcn> so when it's changed so much it's unrecognisable, just drop the "clone" flag
<tcn> anyway, that's my inheritance mechanism.. for now :)
<_QZ> inheritance?
<_QZ> how is that inheritance
<tcn> whatever turns out to be simplest to implement & use, that's what tunes should use.. classes, prototypes, whatever.
<_QZ> inheritance is where u subclass the object type and add new shit to the structure and new methods that only work on that type and it inherits some methods from the parent class
<tcn> yup
<tcn> anyway, I never got into C++, so the class/method system doesn't seem so natural to me
<_QZ> brix is unable to handle inheritance
07:30pm
<_QZ> ofcourse u can embed an object inside another object
<_QZ> so that can be kinda like inheritance
<_QZ> i could have my null-term string class and then create a new class that has a number and a null-term string object and call it a counted class :)
<_QZ> counted string class
<_QZ> its methods could call the null-term methods
<_QZ> kewl, redhat comes with a bumper sticker :)
<tcn> what's timestamp?
<_QZ> in what
<tcn>  /who #tunes
<_QZ> its a time
<_QZ> and?
<_QZ> oh the person/bot timestamp?
<tcn> it never does anything?
<tcn> hmm.. wierd traceroute
<tcn> no domain name
07:40pm
<_QZ> uhh timestamp must be some opn thing
<_QZ>  /whois timestamp
<_QZ> it has hyphens before the # sign for each channel
<tcn> what's that mean?
<_QZ> dunno
<_QZ> it has also has a 'd' in my /who list
<tcn> it has -+ before #tunes only
<_QZ> it has voice in tunes that is why it has a +
<tcn> oh
<tcn> try an nslookup on its address
<_QZ> + is the normal symbol for voice, yer client is just screwed up
<_QZ> === NAMES #Tunes : 7 users 
<_QZ>   +_QZ           AlonzoTG     +tcn          +TUNES        +timestamp  
<_QZ>   @Tril         +abi        
<tcn> i just never heard of voice before. never used IRC much
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-:- mode/#Tunes [+v Iepos] by Tril
<_QZ> hello IE
<Iepos> gakuk!
<_QZ> [brand@p0wer ~]>> nslookup 207.16.36.12
<_QZ> Server:  fluffy.aros.net
<_QZ> Address:  207.173.16.2
<_QZ> *** fluffy.aros.net can't find 207.16.36.12: Non-existent host/domain
<tcn> ok that's what I got
<_QZ> lots of ips dont have dns
<_QZ> have u seen 'slc punk' the movie?
<tcn> nope.. heard about it..
<_QZ> im in it
<tcn> you the punk?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> it was filmed here and i was across the street
<tcn> heh
<tcn> this guy here was in Liebestraum, riding a skateboard :)
<_QZ> have u seen touched by an angel?
<tcn> that's when I turn off the TV
<_QZ> its also filmed here and they made a couple episodes in my neighborhood
<_QZ> u cna see my house
<tcn> actually I almost never watch TV
<_QZ> i was star trek
<_QZ> s/was/watch/
<_QZ> damn ds9 is ending in 2 months
-:- SignOff Iepos: #TUNES (Iepos)
<_QZ> ofcourse voyager got better when they got seven
<_QZ> u a trekky?
07:50pm
<tcn> nope
<_QZ> bummer
<tcn> used to watch TNG sometimes
<_QZ> seven is a borg with big breasts :)
<tcn> and the first 5 or 6 movies
<tcn> haha
<tcn> abi's ma
<_QZ> the one thing about star trek that sucks is its 7 year limit
<tcn> 207.16.36.12:21 * Linux 1.3.xx, 2.0.0 to 2.0.34
<_QZ> they always start out the new series with gay shit then to boost ratings they start making kewl shit, then they end the show
<tcn> when voyager was starting the FX were worse than the original
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> i dont think so
<tcn> they were like Seaquest.. haha
<_QZ> when tng started the uniforms sucks
<_QZ> sucked
<tcn> do you have a trekkie uniform?
<_QZ> no
<tcn> you're ok :)
<_QZ> everyone looked so skrawny in the uniforms
<_QZ> it was as bad as the cheap fx and props of TOS
<tcn> TOS?
<_QZ> the old star trek
<_QZ> tos, tng, ds9, voy
<tcn> What was the movie where they had the klingon's ship?
<tcn> I like that one
<_QZ> when they went back in time?
<tcn> yeah
<tcn> what did they say? "hey jim that's a dude not a chick!"
<_QZ> dunno the number but i have it
<_QZ> haha
<tcn> they landed with the cloak on, and the gear sunk down about 8' deep
<tcn> "make me some aluminum glass"
<tcn> hey, yesterday I learned how to make that shit :)
<tcn> use liquid nitrogen
08:00pm
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250102.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 924231605 729763 from #tunes
<_QZ> st4
<tcn> you seen Futurama?
<_QZ> i saw the first one
<tcn> same here
<tcn> I was getting sick of the simpsons still being on
<AlonzoTG> om
<tcn> om?
<tcn> abi, be alonzotg
<_QZ> whats the url for redhat labs?
<tcn> ?
<_QZ> its 4 letters
<_QZ> and 2 of them are 'rh'
<tcn> rhlb?
<_QZ> no
<tcn> rhl_?
<_QZ> i think l was another
<_QZ> but it doesnt make sense
<_QZ> i think l is the last letter
<tcn> wtf do they do?
<tcn> rhnl?
<_QZ> they write software for linux
<_QZ> when in doubt goto reasterman's page
<_QZ> rasterman
<tcn> well I'm outta here
<_QZ> cya
<tcn> don't sit on any needles :)
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason)
08:10pm
-:- _QZ has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org/>  http://www.enlightenment.org/raster/blum.c
<AlonzoTG> does that thing compile?
<_QZ> yes
<_QZ> u wanna see something pretty? http://www.enlightenment.org/raster/grab_now.jpg
08:30pm
<AlonzoTG> Undefined symbol mfrob....
<AlonzoTG> :|
<_QZ> [brand@p0wer ~]>> gcc blum.c 
<_QZ> [brand@p0wer ~]>> a.out 
<_QZ> How many buttox do you have 
<_QZ> 1
<_QZ> I have 3 buttox now
<_QZ> i doubt it would compile on whatever u have cuz it was written by someone that uses gcc
* AlonzoTG/#tunes has BC++4.52
<_QZ> heh
<AlonzoTG> it runs on windoze 3.11!!!!
<AlonzoTG> =)
<_QZ> gcc is a hihg performance C compiler
<AlonzoTG> NICE screenshot!
<_QZ> s/hihg/high/
-:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Tril[sloth.wcug.wwu.edu])
<AlonzoTG> My version is SOOO old....
<AlonzoTG> :|
<AlonzoTG> Oh well...
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<_QZ> ya i know :)
08:40pm
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[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0416
IRC log ended Fri Apr 16 00:00:01 1999