00:41:16 water joined #tunes 00:41:30 re 01:03:19 smkl joined #tunes 01:16:12 scipient1000 joined #tunes 01:17:06 scipient1000 left #tunes 01:17:22 scipient joined #tunes 01:39:53 [QUIT] ink_ quit: Ping timeout for ink_[ppp-207-214-214-247.sntc01.pacbell.net] 01:59:57 [QUIT] ink[conan] quit: Ping timeout for ink[conan][ppp-207-214-214-247.sntc01.pacbell.net] 02:16:43 [NICK] JALH_ changed nick to: JALH 02:56:22 Fare joined #tunes 04:28:07 [QUIT] scipient quit: Ping timeout for scipient[ip134.greensboro15.nc.pub-ip.psi.net] 04:37:32 [QUIT] Fare quit: Ping timeout for Fare[ppp76-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net] 04:37:39 [QUIT] ink[sleep] quit: Ping timeout for ink[sleep][ppp-206-170-2-119.sntc01.pacbell.net] 04:39:29 Fare joined #tunes 04:57:14 Fare joined #tunes 06:38:45 scipient joined #tunes 06:49:24 eihrul joined #tunes 07:39:56 Fare joined #tunes 08:13:39 [QUIT] Fare quit: Connection reset by pear 08:59:14 [QUIT] gREMLiNs quit: Ping timeout for gREMLiNs[as36-01-66-47.urc.bl.ac.yu] 09:00:08 water joined #tunes 09:13:31 [QUIT] ink[sleep] quit: Read error to ink[sleep][ppp-206-170-2-119.sntc01.pacbell.net]: Connection reset by peer 10:36:16 good morning 10:45:46 i think i intimidate these VCs i met 10:49:50 intimidate? 10:50:05 yeah :/ 10:50:46 it seems to have been a combination of my home page items plus my desire to impress in person 10:50:58 i think it can be remedied, though 10:51:33 hm squeak just got a hash table implementation upgrade 10:51:48 quite an upgrade, too 10:52:19 [QUIT] MysticOne quit: See ya! 11:00:58 lar1 joined #tunes 11:01:33 hey lar 11:01:44 Good morning 11:19:11 [TOPIC] water: TUNES: Free Reflective Computing System http://www.tunes.org -- Slate Programming Language http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html -- http://lambda.weblogs.com 11:53:57 [NICK] ult_ changed nick to: ult 12:15:24 ok, i'm committing everything i've decided or thourght about slate to the web site, and i don't care any more if people grok it (for now) 12:16:43 hum 12:17:29 eih: are we still using ASTs to represent source expressions, or are we going with a more conservative linear model? 12:17:53 not quite sure yet 12:18:21 ok, well the main page is changing anyway 12:19:17 the obvious problem that could arise is that "." evaluation hooks operate on objects that didn't exist when the expression started evaluation 12:19:45 or that the expression changes the objects it mentions too much to make "." clear in an AST form 12:22:25 water starts playing down the use of the term "OO" on the site 12:23:40 ok minor updates to slate-home are up 12:24:33 is there any immediately compelling reason to change the site organization a bit? 12:24:50 water thinks slate-detail should be something else 12:27:17 maybe details fits under the faq 12:27:41 hm any suggestions for how to get into explaining how it works? 12:27:54 (iow the structure not the content) 12:27:59 PING 12:31:00 ok slate-detail is gone (refactored into faq) 12:31:14 hm mobius needs pages 12:31:22 but not just yet 12:33:55 your guess is as good as mine 12:35:00 Tril joined #tunes 12:35:00 [MODE] ChanServ set mode: +o Tril 12:35:06 hey tril 12:35:08 hi 12:35:34 chk logs for a little background 12:36:06 how busy have you been lately? 12:36:25 well, school just staretd; I was busy the first week but things should lighten up now 12:36:33 ok 12:36:51 i've found some programmers in seattle to talk to as well as some VCs 12:36:54 but anyway 12:36:57 I should read the logs for today? 12:37:07 *shrug* 12:37:32 it would help a bit 12:39:56 well anyway, what suggestions can you offer? 12:41:40 do you want slate.tunes.org (do you care?) 12:41:54 perhaps 12:42:00 I'm thinking of reorganizing tunes to not center on one particular implementation (if it ever did...) 12:42:08 ok 12:42:14 sure, do it 12:42:15 a discussion forum only, and facilitating of interaction 12:42:33 well, tunes IS a spec basically 12:42:47 the diktuon-style of web reference (and review) to collect related projects 12:43:00 ok 12:43:23 more of an ideal, IMHO 12:44:20 Fare gave the go ahead as well. He has agreed that the tunes name can be used for such a thing. And that his company's implementation will have another name anyway. 12:44:32 ok good 12:45:52 I will offer hosting and assistance as needed to any projects that are free and that are working on reflection. 12:46:00 ok 12:46:05 [QUIT] MysticOne quit: Leaving 12:46:16 (I normally offer hosting to any projects that are free under the bespin name, but tunes can focus on reflective ones only.) 12:46:20 does this mean slate would get its own user account? 12:47:16 you can have whatever you need. By "user account" do you mean a user named "slate" for any purpose? 12:47:25 right 12:47:51 so multiple people can handle web stuff as needed 12:47:58 like hcf for example 12:48:09 or lar1 ;) 12:48:51 sure 12:49:20 that is the usual way to do it, right? 12:49:34 well, it needs a unix "group" at least. 12:49:40 oh ok 12:49:59 well, then the group should be enough, i guess 12:51:05 hmm 12:51:41 are you going to use CVS to ensure that no one edits the same page at the same time? Or just agree before hand who can edit what? 12:51:56 ugh 12:52:09 If you use any editor that supports locking it won't be a big deal.. but that rules out pico. 12:52:25 heh big loss 12:52:43 yeah, i don't care to have to use cvs 12:52:55 the other option is to have one maintainer to whom all changes are sent. 12:53:08 but that wouldn't be different from the way it is now. would it? 12:53:18 no not really 12:55:53 do you want something like binEng's TPP.dhs.org, where everyone can edit the pages through the web? 12:56:09 abi: no, slate is a unifying/hybridizing of self/beta/lisp at http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate/index.html 12:56:10 okay, water. 12:56:23 abi: no, slate is a unifying/hybridizing of self/beta/lisp at http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate/ 12:56:24 okay, water. 12:56:28 hm 12:56:32 not sure 12:58:10 Well, you will have to find some way to coordinate access. 12:58:20 sure 12:58:27 for now, let's not worry about that 12:58:36 since i have the most work to do on it 12:58:37 the web editing way mostly has the same problem, if two people save at the same time, the last one in has effect. just like editing directly. 12:58:47 water nods 13:00:13 at most, the only thing others will be doing is adding templates or scripts or something 13:02:56 water is looking at a couple of language sites to find a quick natural format for the slate site 13:12:23 hm 13:14:12 tril: so what will you have done today? 13:14:37 I'm trying to figure out authentication 13:14:50 so users can turn into the other user for their projects 13:15:01 It's been semi-broken for a while 13:15:04 ok 13:15:36 water tries to decide between arrow.cx and arrow.tunes.org while he works on the site structure 13:18:22 can anyone recommend a good language site structure for a small project? 13:22:04 water: do you want hcf and lar1 in the slate group now, or were they just examples? 13:22:18 yes 13:22:23 at the very least, i trust them 13:22:28 also eihrul 13:23:46 [QUIT] eihrul quit: Leaving 13:24:06 ? 13:24:15 okay... 13:24:30 I'm setting up access for all the various groups on bespin 13:24:42 to access their respective projects 13:24:50 ok 13:24:59 i suppose that includes diktuon now 13:25:41 lar1 spoke to Tril about diktuon just a second ago. 13:32:48 Anyone have sugestions as to searching in Diktuon? The current code I wrote is just exact-match, so is next to useless. (Looking at ht://dig now 13:33:16 dig? 13:34:46 [QUIT] JALH quit: brb 13:36:42 Yeah, a GPLed search engine called "ht://dig" 13:36:54 oh 13:38:42 [NICK] JALH changed nick to: Everybodys_fan 13:44:33 ok the site's going to be dis-organized for a bit 13:45:41 ok 13:49:24 the syntax for changing users is now: 13:49:37 bespin:~$ sudo su projectname 13:50:40 water: should there be a new location for the slate page? 13:50:43 Ok. Corey still needs to grant perms to the diktuon user, right? 13:50:49 lar1: nope. 13:51:03 tril: as in slate.tunes.org? 13:51:17 is that ok? 13:51:17 sure 13:51:17 we can make the old one redirect there 13:51:22 Tril: Oh! Execlent! You changed it in /home/coreyr/html, or did you move it? 13:51:39 lar1: just run "sudo su diktuon" and you will have access 13:51:40 well, i've already been manipulating the slate stuff into a tree 13:51:53 it asks your own password the first time 13:52:18 Tril: Ok, thanks. 13:52:36 water, just let me know when I can move the page over, when you are not messing with it for a moment 13:52:45 is the slate account set up yet? 13:52:55 yeah, go ahead and move it over now 13:53:25 it'll take a minute, hold on 13:53:33 the contents of ./water/html/slate/ 13:53:39 np 13:53:48 oh, okay 14:05:55 You used absolute URL's to your own site. 14:05:59 I'm changing them all to relative ones now. 14:06:32 i did? 14:06:32 where? 14:06:41 go to http://www.tunes.org/~slate/ (temporary home) 14:06:44 they all point at ~water 14:06:49 oh 14:07:08 well, that's because the page has its directory hard-coded into it :/ 14:07:19 all you have to do is remove that tag 14:07:46 collaboration.html is meant to be there soon? 14:07:53 yeah, BASE HREF=... 14:07:55 oh it is there 14:08:11 you have a base href too? 14:08:23 no, that's what was causing the links to break 14:08:38 You are right. can you remove all of those? 14:08:49 from whatever files it is in 14:09:29 i think its only in the index.html's 14:09:56 hm 14:09:57 I made a temporary ~water/slate-home.html that gives the new address 14:10:11 it says i'm not allowed to use the slate account 14:11:19 water, lar1: try sudo now 14:11:47 operation not permitted 14:18:15 but did it change users successfully? 14:18:28 It may print out an Operation not permitted trying to do something to your tty, but that can be ignored. type whoami 14:18:55 ok 14:19:01 It looks like it worked 14:19:07 yeah 14:19:11 I see you have two subshells running as slate.... 14:19:13 weird 14:19:58 I found what is causing that error message 14:23:04 removed a "biff n" message in the login script for some users, it shouldnt show up again 14:23:19 ok 14:24:08 where's the slate directory? 14:25:03 /serv/slate/html 14:25:16 ~slate/html 14:26:51 oh 14:27:03 eihrul joined #tunes 14:27:10 re eih 14:29:25 Tril: It won't let me write in the diktuon tree. 14:32:31 I have to go.. 14:32:34 bbl 14:32:40 ok 14:32:42 [QUIT] Tril quit: bye 14:33:47 Blue_Orb joined #tunes 14:34:13 water fixes up the html 14:34:25 ) 14:36:18 water needs to go out in a little bit 14:36:35 orb: where are you from? 14:36:49 im from bangladesh 14:36:55 ah 14:37:32 ya 14:40:31 ok, i'm going to finish this stuff later 14:40:45 bbl 14:42:47 [QUIT] JALH quit: g'night * 14:48:50 Blue_Orb left #tunes 16:44:54 Brianna joined #tunes 16:51:23 nate37 joined #tunes 16:56:38 [QUIT] water quit: Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-224.tscnet.net] 17:48:04 [QUIT] lar1 quit: [x]chat 18:02:51 [QUIT] ink quit: Going into Linux 18:58:53 lar1 joined #tunes 19:45:36 [QUIT] Melinda quit: Read error to Melinda[porpoise13.panama.gulf.net]: Connection reset by peer 20:11:50 [QUIT] eihrul quit: Leaving 20:11:58 eihrul joined #tunes 21:27:13 [QUIT] pratap quit: ircII EPIC4-2000 -- Accept no limitations 21:32:36 [QUIT] eihrul quit: Ping timeout for eihrul[OBJECT.RES.CMU.EDU] 21:33:24 eihrul joined #tunes 21:41:09 clog joined #tunes 21:41:14 abi joined #tunes 21:47:16 [NICK] kc5tja changed nick to: kc-movie 21:55:23 [NICK] ink changed nick to: ink[Mario_Tennis] 22:01:19 [QUIT] eihrul quit: Leaving 22:06:56 [QUIT] air quit: Ping timeout for air[p0wer.qzx.com] 00:19:04 [QUIT] Kyle quit: Ping timeout for Kyle[cr168790-a.nmkt1.on.wave.home.com]