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11:15:56 <waffle> lo
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11:16:21 <waffle> hi witten
11:22:54 <witten> hi waffle
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11:33:49 <eihrul> hello
11:34:03 <waffle> hi eihrul
11:35:18 <waffle> what's up?
11:35:57 <eihrul> class
11:37:35 <witten> learning how to use a spreadsheet?
11:39:43 <eihrul> whatever :P
11:39:57 <waffle> what class ya in?
12:12:22 <witten> he's in Spreadsheets 101
12:12:52 <ult[reallyidle]> er, that class doesn't start for another few hours for him
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12:14:23 <waffle> heh.  sounds like a way to torment the students :)
12:14:43 <eihrul> yeah, i have concepts of mathematics next :P
12:14:44 <ult[reallyidle]> he's got a nasty schedule
12:15:04 <witten> I'll say
12:15:11 <eihrul> 3 breaks :P
12:15:27 <eihrul> my day is so spread out it isn't funny
12:15:37 <waffle> hey, does anyone know fare's schedule?  i haven't seen him when he's been non-idle for a while.
12:15:47 <eihrul> speaking of whic
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12:16:01 <witten> he was saying some incomprehensible things rather non-idly last night
12:16:34 <waffle> what time zone are you in, (and therefore when is night :)
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12:18:04 <witten> I'm in -700 at the moment
12:18:23 <witten> and it was between 11 p.m. and 2 a.m. I think
12:18:45 <waffle> -7... that's mountain right?
12:18:50 <witten> pacific
12:19:26 <waffle> ok, that makes it 1am to 4 am for me
12:20:00 <waffle> thanks
12:21:29 <waffle> and what incomprehensible stuff was he sayin?
12:21:53 <witten> I don't quite remember. it sounded like the typical tunes babble
12:22:02 <waffle> heh
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13:09:32 Fare is back
13:09:46 Fare is beepable
13:11:36 <waffle> hey fare
13:22:25 <smkl> abi: twelf?
13:22:25 <abi> twelf is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~twelf
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13:37:50 <Fare> #1 scheme has no runtime reflection, only some kind of compile-time reflection, through (LOAD) and/or macros
13:39:54 eihrul checks the logs.
13:41:00 <Fare> eih: sorry, was replying to waffle
13:41:20 <waffle> either that or it was from something someone said last night ;)
14:01:07 <waffle> fare: can one system be considered to be more reflective then another, or is it that a system is either reflective or not?
14:01:47 <waffle> i.e. is the word reflective of type float or boolean ;)
14:03:12 <waffle> #5- and if my goal was to study reflective systems, through interaction, what would be the best thing to check out that i could actually install and play with?
14:04:01 <Fare> waffle: the question is rather "how much is reflected" ?
14:04:17 <waffle> ahh, gotcha
14:04:44 <Fare> again, if you're interested specifically in reflection as opposed to mere metaprogramming,
14:04:55 <waffle> yes
14:05:07 <Fare> you should be hacking some reflective system, or making yours
14:05:08 <waffle> rephrase-> yes, i am
14:05:29 <Fare> ok, so you'll most likely be hacking a LISP or FORTH implementation
14:06:22 <waffle> i see, LISP and FORTH have decent portions reflected, in systems which are installable?
14:07:19 <eihrul> waffle: there is squeak
14:07:29 <Fare> Well, actually, some people are doing reflectino in Java
14:07:46 <Fare> squeak is good, too (I recommend it over Java, anyday)
14:08:10 <Fare> _some_ LISPs and FORTHs have reflective implementations.
14:08:13 <eihrul> some day, the buzzword language of the day will converge on something... decent
14:08:16 <eihrul> it is only a matter of time :)
14:08:28 <waffle> abi: squeak?
14:08:28 <abi> squeak is a cool pure oo language descended from Smalltalk, at http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/ or at http://www.squeak.org/ or The open source mouse that roars!
14:10:03 <waffle> do any free CL implementations have reflective implementations?
14:11:12 <waffle> ooh, i think PLOB might
14:11:36 <waffle> oops, my bad.  PLOB isn't a implementation
14:12:14 <waffle> got it.  thanks
14:13:12 <waffle> ok, i'm going to just hack together what i need for now, then do a in-depth investigation later.  Thanks for your help.
14:16:45 <Fare> gcl is compile-time reflective, I think
14:17:01 <Fare> cmucl is somehow reflective, but in a very intricate way
14:17:33 <waffle> GCL?  i don't see that on the page.
14:17:50 <Fare> GNU CL; successor to kcl and akcl
14:19:52 <waffle> abi: gcl?
14:19:52 <abi> no idea, waffle
14:19:57 <waffle> abi: GNU CL?
14:19:57 <abi> i don't know, waffle
14:20:06 <waffle> abi: kcl?
14:20:06 <abi> i don't know, waffle
14:20:07 <waffle> abi: akcl?
14:20:08 <abi> waffle: i don't know
14:20:24 <waffle> abi: what do you know?
14:20:24 <abi> wish i knew, waffle
14:20:28 waffle chuckles
14:20:49 <Fare> I don't think it's developped much, these days
14:22:07 <waffle> ok, i'll search for it.
14:48:49 <waffle> thanks.  bye
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14:51:30 <eihrul> re
14:51:49 <witten> re re re
14:52:51 <Fare> re re re re re
14:53:12 <witten> re re re re re re re
14:54:19 <eihrul> ["re" | count <- [1..100]]
14:55:16 <witten> so I read about self mirrors
14:55:33 <witten> they seem to be nothing more than wrappers for primitive introspection functions
14:55:47 <eihrul> sure
14:56:23 <Fare> "re" . (" re" x (2* $n))
14:57:22 <witten> 2 * $n - 1, you mean
14:57:45 <witten> or +1, depending on what you count from
14:57:56 <Fare> witten: no, I count correctly
14:57:57 <eihrul> (\me re -> me me ("re" : re)) (\me re -> me me ("re" : re)) []
14:58:34 <witten> in that case it isn't 2 * $n
14:58:54 <Fare> no, it's 2*$n + 1, as we begun to do.
14:59:12 <witten> okay
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15:00:50 <witten> damn quotas won't work
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16:38:38 <hcf> abi: gcl is GNU Common Lisp, see http://www.lisp.org/table/systems.htm#gnu
16:38:39 <hcf> abi: kcl is Kyoto Common Lisp, see http://www.lisp.org/table/systems.htm#kcl
16:38:41 <hcf> abi: akcl is Austin Kyoto Common Lisp, see http://www.lisp.org/table/systems.htm#kcl
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