01:53:05 water joined #tunes 02:18:10 [QUIT] air quit: Ping timeout for air[p0wer.qzx.com] 03:51:57 smoke joined #tunes 04:07:22 [QUIT] karltk quit: foo 06:14:14 smoke joined #tunes 07:32:08 Kyle_L joined #tunes 07:57:06 smkl joined #tunes 07:57:41 hi smkl 07:57:55 hello Kyle_L 07:59:18 anything interesting? 07:59:48 nope 08:15:15 Would you happen to know how to checkout the Tunes website? CVS is my mortal enemy. ;) 08:17:36 [kyle@cr168790-a kyle]$ cvs -z 9 checkout Tunes 08:17:36 Fatal error, aborting. 08:17:36 guest: no such user 08:17:36 cvs [checkout aborted]: authorization failed: server cvs.tunes.org rejected acce 08:17:36 ss 08:18:34 Kyle_L thinks ctrl-v could be quite dangerous 08:35:38 thanks anyway 08:35:40 [QUIT] Kyle_L quit: Leaving 08:36:45 redrobe joined #tunes 08:42:46 [QUIT] redrobe quit: [x]chat 08:49:49 Kyle_L joined #tunes 08:50:44 [QUIT] _ruiner_ quit: Read error to _ruiner_[ppp430.wi.centurytel.net]: Connection reset by peer 09:50:28 ult joined #tunes 12:14:20 Ghyll joined #tunes 12:38:00 [QUIT] kc5tja quit: THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT (xchat) 14:43:57 [QUIT] _ruiner_ quit: Read error to _ruiner_[ppp186.wi.centurytel.net]: EOF from client 15:04:25 [QUIT] eihrul quit: [x]chat 15:07:09 [QUIT] smoke quit: z 15:11:36 Fare joined #tunes 15:11:47 Help! 15:22:25 ? 15:33:12 ult pokes fare 15:36:15 [QUIT] ult quit: Ping timeout for ult[user-38lcceq.dialup.mindspring.com] 16:29:44 lmaxson joined #tunes 16:30:19 Kyle_L joined #tunes 16:30:40 hi lmaxson 16:31:05 Hi, Kyle. 16:31:18 what is up in the world of specification? 16:31:42 It ought to be up, right at the top. 16:31:50 ) 16:33:07 I know you are proposing one super-specification language. I guess it can bee seen as the closure of many domain specific specification languages. 16:33:40 Actually I'm proposing a particular syntax for formal logic. 16:33:40 What domains are you most interested in specifiying first? 16:33:47 Oh. 16:34:13 A specification language is no more than a representation of formal logic. 16:34:37 I never really cared about syntax. It can be changed easily if it is not suitable. 16:34:48 I would agree. 16:35:11 I happen to use PL/I's syntax, due to its simplicity. 16:35:40 I find it hard to imagine being interested in a specification lang, without an specific domain in mind (to act as a motivator). 16:36:00 You have to understand my user orientation. 16:36:16 Do you have a prefered domain? 16:36:53 No. I have used PL/I for the last 35 years. It is about as close to a "universal" programming language in terms of domains that's available. 16:37:29 I would imagine that specifications only are useful when they deal with high-level concepts. These concepts are found in specific domains. 16:37:54 otherwise you could say a pile of NAND gate could specify anything you wnat. 16:38:15 Yes, you could. 16:38:56 When I started out there were only three domains--business, scientific, and control. 16:39:26 Unix introduced text domains with its focus on stream i-o. 16:39:46 I have not had exposure to PL/I, therefore I do not know i they solved the problem of making susinct specification sub-langauges. 16:40:19 PL/I is a programming language design to cover all domains. It has done that very well. 16:41:41 However, it is a third-generation HLL. Thus it does not support the assertion process of a language based on logic programming. 16:42:20 Maybe you can show me how PL/I would handle an example SQL query. I am interested in seeing if PL/I is as susinct. 16:42:33 I do not understand your last sentence. 16:43:13 Third-generation languages support the "assignment" operator as their only "processing" statement. 16:44:03 A specification language like Prolog uses the "assertion" as its processing statement. 16:44:34 OK, I get it now. Thanks. 16:46:16 The point is to allow either an "assertion" or an "assignment" as a process statement. In that manner you can meld the third and fourth generation languages directly. 16:47:17 The assertion is definitely easier for a user as it allows him to "specify" what he wants without a concern for details. 16:47:48 Eventually any assertion has to be converted into assignments, as that is the language of the computer. 16:48:08 What you want is a language that permits either, thus only the need for one language. 16:49:38 Further the goal is to get as close to "natural" language as possible to reduce the gap the user must cross. 16:51:29 Thus if you offer him near-textbook expression, that which he achieved in his schooling, then he has less need for external (IT) support. 16:52:39 I do not like the concept of natural language processing. What is natural? 16:53:29 English is hardly a good specifiaction language. Maybe human and machine can meet in the middle: a language that is complex, yet clear. 16:53:54 Are you familiar with Knuth's Literate Programming? 16:54:03 No. 16:55:19 Compare it to a textbook where you have both descriptive "text" (informal language) and logical expressions (formal language). 16:56:16 I have to go now. 16:56:20 Thanks for the talk. 16:56:24 Thank you. 16:56:31 [QUIT] Kyle_L quit: Leaving 17:02:18 morton joined #tunes 17:02:22 morton left #tunes 17:04:30 lmaxson left #tunes 18:00:25 ult joined #tunes 18:17:01 ult joined #tunes 18:23:14 ult_ joined #tunes 18:24:58 [QUIT] ult quit: Ping timeout for ult[user-38lccek.dialup.mindspring.com] 18:30:33 Kyle_L joined #tunes 18:33:57 ult__ joined #tunes 18:34:20 [NICK] ult__ changed nick to: ul 18:36:19 [QUIT] ult_ quit: Ping timeout for ult_[user-38lccb6.dialup.mindspring.com] 18:48:19 [NICK] ul changed nick to: ult 18:53:29 morton joined #tunes 18:56:52 [QUIT] morton quit: Leaving 19:09:06 [QUIT] Kyle_L quit: Leaving 19:15:39 water joined #tunes 19:15:53 re 22:39:56 [QUIT] MysticOne quit: Life, a brush with the unreal. 22:41:11 eihrul joined #tunes 23:07:49 [QUIT] _ruiner_ quit: destroy what destroys you 23:44:25 [QUIT] rares quit: Ping timeout for rares[wtrb-sh8-port178.snet.net] 23:45:43 [QUIT] downix quit: Read error to downix[d-ma-boston-119.ici.net]: Connection reset by peer 23:47:56 water whistles some tunes 00:45:04 I440r joined #tunes