00:13:18 [QUIT] MysticOne quit: Life, a brush with the unreal. 00:44:08 [QUIT] kc5tja quit: THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT (xchat) 00:57:23 [QUIT] water quit: The Tao went that-a-way! 01:02:19 KingNato left #tunes 02:35:58 billh joined #tunes 04:13:04 smoke joined #tunes 05:19:42 karltk joined #tunes 06:28:47 [QUIT] smoke quit: Ping timeout for smoke[10dyn69.delft.casema.net] 06:48:59 smoke joined #tunes 07:54:59 ult joined #tunes 09:08:15 smklsmkl joined #tunes 09:20:07 Doh. 09:41:31 abi joined #tunes 09:43:15 hcf joined #tunes 09:43:22 abi is back and broken 09:43:25 nothing in the dbs 09:43:31 i havnt the time to fix her atm 09:43:33 ltr 09:43:34 [QUIT] hcf quit: Leaving 10:01:06 smklsmkl joined #tunes 10:42:08 XeF4 joined #tunes 11:32:11 Alex[] joined #tunes 11:32:30 hi 11:38:10 hello Alex[] 11:42:58 Alex[away] joined #tunes 11:44:21 smklsmkl_ joined #tunes 11:44:28 [QUIT] smklsmkl quit: Ping timeout for smklsmkl[ppp104.dial-in.verkkotieto.fi] 11:45:52 [QUIT] XeF4 quit: [BX] Bob Barker uses BitchX. Have your BitchX spayed or neutered. 11:53:40 Fare joined #tunes 11:53:50 'lo fare 11:54:16 'hi ult 11:54:16 Tril joined #tunes 11:54:17 [MODE] ChanServ set mode: +o Tril 11:54:22 Tril! 11:54:27 foo 11:54:51 Today is "confidential" Tunes startup discussion time. Close your eyes, non-concerned people. 11:54:56 haha 11:55:19 Fare: You sound like Microsoft's Kerberos fiasco. 11:55:36 you know it? 11:56:01 I _wish_ I sounded like microsoft to the financial guys. "Hey, will you buy a few hundred million dollars worth of Tunes shares from me?" 11:56:43 "Here's a click-through document of our proprietary extension to Kerberos in Win2K. You can't read it unless you agree that it is a trade secret!" 11:56:56 (while anyone can download said click through document off their page) 11:57:12 They threatened to sue slashdot since they didn't delete a comment of someone posting the entire text. 11:57:35 Slashdot sent them a letter questioning their legal standing and I never saw anything after that :) 11:58:42 By hitting the "enter" key, you agree that you owe me $23,000,000,000.42 11:58:45 hmm...where can I get this document? 11:58:52 ult: which document? 11:59:02 Fare: Kerb? 11:59:09 search /. 11:59:33 http://slashdot.org/articles/00/06/28/0042228.shtml 11:59:43 that is the latest one 11:59:45 gah. 12:00:12 Fare: I hit enter 12:00:14 ult, tril: welcome among my debtors. 12:00:34 Here is my payment: "$23,000,000,000.42" 12:00:34 Be reassured that I will spare you the 42 cents. 12:00:41 oh, bogus stuff. Fare ;) 12:01:33 Tril: you could also have said that since $23 is the empty string, you only owe me .42 of some undisclosed unit. 12:02:12 .42 bytes 12:03:20 Fare: You can make a TUNES company, but in the future I plan to make a TUNES non-profit organization anyway. 12:03:21 Tril: anyway, the idea is that having programmers sign a non-exclusive unlimited license to the company allows the company to diversify its revenues, while paying authors with royalties and evading higher taxes on salaries (as well as incompatibilities by people having exclusive contracts as salarymen) 12:04:00 Royalties for what? 12:04:13 Royalties are usually for every sale of the product, no? 12:05:30 If there is a payment for code submitted, it's gotta be optional. 12:05:54 Royalties as payment for the license! 12:06:42 A royalty on a book is paid to the author for every copy of the book sold. 12:06:53 of the initial, one-shot, license of unlimited right to use, copy, modification, royalty-free redistribution, sublicensing, that is granted to the Company 12:07:28 a royalty for a software is paid everytime a license is agreed between the author and a customer. 12:07:28 But in open source, anyone can sell a copy without paying royalties to said authors. Only YOU would pay them, and who is to say anyone would buy tunes from you? 12:07:43 Then the customer pays the author directly. They have no need of you as intermediary. 12:08:08 There will be one license sold by the author, hence a one-time royalty payment for all his life (unless he manages to sell it again) 12:08:31 The term royalty is generally not used for one time payments. 12:08:37 no, then the customer pays the company, that sublicenses the whole software set (not just one author's contribution). 12:08:42 It's used for recurring payments, AFAIK. 12:08:46 unless the customer uses the GPL version. 12:08:57 We'll use it for a non-recurring payment. 12:09:08 Or a recursion that stays at n=1, if you prefer. 12:09:18 Fare: Well, good luck having a complete software set that way. I hope that's not the main way your company survives. 12:09:37 no, that's the way it pays its non-salarymen. 12:09:47 the way it survives is by selling support. 12:09:59 good 12:10:02 I don't expect anyone to buy proprietary licenses. 12:10:15 I don't expect anyone to sign an agreement to submit code. 12:10:31 It's (1) an right we reserve in case of a big opportunity (2) a way to pay people tax-free. 12:10:31 Especially if they are paid only once. 12:10:52 Tax laws depend on the countries involved. 12:11:07 our salarymen will be paid with a tiny salary and the rest in royalties. 12:11:07 I'm sure I don't get any tax break from royalties 12:11:17 Since I don't have French citizenship 12:11:24 tax break, not. Lower taxes, yes. 12:11:48 Maybe. I don't know, I never made any royalty income. 12:12:28 Also, in France, many people who already have a day-job (teachers, etc) CANNOT receive a salary for a secondary part-time job. But they CAN receive royalties. 12:12:53 Can they receive payment for a secondary job, just not salaried? 12:13:02 I never banked my $80 royalty payment by RedHat. 12:13:20 ...Er, you're 80$ royalty payment? 12:13:20 6 months the check becomes void you know 12:13:37 ult: no, they cannot; it's a salary under law, and they usually have exclusive work contracts. 12:13:56 What're you getting royalties on/ 12:13:58 Tril: much more than that. I'll frame the check. 12:14:06 ult: the Assembly-HOWTO :) 12:14:18 Fare, you gotta be kidding me, how'd you pull that off? 12:14:21 whichever printed edition. 12:14:23 He maintains it 12:14:35 I _used_ to maintain it. 12:14:35 I thought it was GPL or something though ;) 12:14:44 now, no one maintains it 12:14:51 Ok, call that "a favor to the authors". 12:15:03 Hmm, whats the current status of it then? 12:15:22 Tril: did anything happen to Konstantin Boldyshev, over whom I turned maintenance of the Asm-HOWTO? 12:15:40 no, nevermind, :) 12:15:45 my unmaintained HOWTO is the second one, the Firewall-Piercing mini-HOWTO. 12:15:48 I didnt know it was turned over 12:16:00 see linuxassembly.org 12:16:35 Fare: Is the LDP license royalty-based or something though? 12:17:37 ult: no. The royalties were sent without the license forcing anyone to send them, as a compliment to the authors. 12:17:54 s/license/licenses/ since there is no single LDP-wide license. 12:18:24 ult nods 12:18:28 (I don't even know if there are precise official licensing guidelines) 12:18:34 Fare, I see. Cool. 12:19:21 the bogus name I use in my business plan is \newcommand{\company}{{\sc Foo Reflective Systems}} 12:19:45 Fare wonders how many business plans are written in LaTeX each year... 12:20:34 5? 6? 12:22:03 must be that. 12:22:12 ult: go with 6... it includes 5 12:24:47 Are French business plans usually written in English? 12:25:48 No 12:25:54 do Basile and Moise ever come to irc 12:26:10 But I wouldn't mind this bp being accepted by international funds. 12:26:21 Basile came once. 12:26:27 Moise never came. 12:27:11 do you have any money yet? possibly your own? 12:27:18 Writing directly in english saves me the burden of translating or of maintaining two versions. 12:27:38 my own money is ridiculous as compared to the funds I'm trying to levy. 12:27:42 Writing in French would also save that burden:) 12:28:25 Do you have enough money to quit your job and work full time on helping start up? 12:28:38 i guess that's not too important 12:28:39 no, because I know 1) I eventually will submit the plan to non-french speakers 2) I can consult non-french speaking friends with an english plan 3) the interested french people know english (or should) 12:29:03 I have enough money to sustain myself w/o salary during the early times of the startup. 12:29:13 not more. 12:30:06 (or alternatively, to pay back the Government for my years at the ENS, should the issue come up with my not being a civil servant for ten years) 12:36:29 Have you read Red Hat's business information extensively? I'm sure they have good wording you could use. 12:36:56 do you have pointers? 12:40:35 redhatventures requires a full staff and a lots of details before they even consider a plan. 12:42:25 No, but maybe learning how they got started... 12:43:04 OpenSources, the book, tells us all that. 12:45:22 ok 12:49:05 what's a semi-automatic qualification step? 12:50:22 part static typechecking/analysis, part manual assessment of correctness. 12:50:57 put that in 12:50:59 (and/or part dynamic development of the typechecker, and/or interactive development of correctness proofs) 12:51:10 or dont mention it 12:51:23 it makes no sense to introduce terms you don't define 12:51:32 s/introduce/use/ 13:00:22 ok 13:01:19 did I mention the document should be 3 separate documents. 13:01:22 or more 13:01:37 3 separate documents? 13:01:41 but it is fine for putting all your ideas together 13:01:48 is business plan really supposed to be so long? 13:02:00 a full bp may be 30 pages long, I'm told 13:02:12 maybe more, if it's detailed. 13:02:25 less if it's about better-known things. 13:03:20 although better-known is never well-known, since bp's are for venture capital, and well-known things have normal capital, not venture capital. 13:06:20 what if someone else writes tunes before you do, will you buy it from them 13:06:24 oh wait :) 13:10:23 sure 13:10:43 with my one-time royalty trick, as usual. 13:41:35 [QUIT] ult quit: Leaving 14:31:43 [QUIT] rares quit: Ping timeout for rares[wtrb-sh4-port198.snet.net] 14:35:17 smklsmkl_ joined #tunes 14:41:59 Ghyll joined #tunes 14:43:51 Gakuk 14:44:25 [QUIT] smklsmkl_ quit: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by _smklsmkl)) 15:02:25 [QUIT] smklsmkl quit: BitchX-1.0c13 -- just do it. 15:02:50 smklsmkl joined #tunes 16:08:30 lmaxson joined #tunes 16:13:19 [QUIT] nate37 quit: nate37 has no reason 16:20:34 Fare. 16:27:45 lar1 joined #tunes 16:46:12 Hello, lar1. 16:52:48 [QUIT] smoke quit: One day sheep will rule the world 17:10:53 lmaxson left #tunes 17:33:58 ult joined #tunes 17:51:21 [NICK] ult changed nick to: u 17:51:30 [NICK] u changed nick to: ult 18:10:09 [QUIT] smklsmkl quit: back tompo 18:46:22 [NICK] ult changed nick to: ult_ 18:46:39 [NICK] ult_ changed nick to: your_still_ignoring_me 18:46:49 [QUIT] your_still_ignoring_me quit: Read error to your_still_ignoring_me[user-38lcd45.dialup.mindspring.com]: EOF from client 18:47:01 ult joined #tunes 20:19:29 [QUIT] lar1 quit: [x]chat 21:01:39 [QUIT] Fare quit: Leaving 21:14:29 eihrul joined #tunes 21:25:46 ree joined #tunes 23:00:22 ree joined #tunes 23:01:00 it should be free reflective reflective computing system 23:02:22 whatever 23:02:49 ok, that's a good name too, kind of harsh 23:02:53 but I like it 23:11:07 oi 23:11:07 ree left #tunes 01:16:15 billh joined #tunes